[Passed] On Proscribed Regions and Organizations

Atlantica · Post by **Atlantica** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:15 pm

Although as stated earlier in the thread I fundamentally disagree with the overarching infrastructure of proscription at this moment (even if it was necessary in September), I do believe that Adytus' proposal is an improvement and as such I fully intend to vote for it. However, I am particularly concerned by the continued proscription of regions hosting outposts of the Grey Wardens, as I do not believe that they pose the security threat that much of the leadership of the Grey Wardens poses to Osiris. Specifically, it is my interpretation (as this may not be shared by others, I would request a clarification in language to remove any ambiguities or an opinion from the Council of Priests on this matter) that members of outposts are considered to be members of the Order of the Grey Wardens for the purposes of this law, and thus prohibited from becoming citizens by virtue of both their membership in the Wardens and their membership in an outpost. Accordingly, I do not believe that an additional proscription is necessary, as it unnecessarily prohibits civilian members of outposts (i.e., Mordor as the only active outpost as far as I can tell, which is home to an active roleplaying community) from contributing to Osiris despite the fact that they are not members of any organization whose leadership arguably threatens the security of Osiris. It can be argued that Wardens threaten Osiran security given the statements and actions of their leadership, but civilian members of regions such as Mordor don't threaten Osiran security.

Post by **Adytus** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:18 pm

Yeah, that can be cleared up. What other regions have outposts, if any?

Post by **Kowassati** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:00 pm

Adytus wrote:Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:04 pmThe CoS can't do anything by itself without assent from the Pharaoh already, I don't see the need to allow anyone and everyone to declare whoever PNG.

I agree. It would make the process more clear by letting the Pharaoh decide. The Pharaoh's power over security is important to the region.

Atlantica · Post by **Atlantica** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:41 pm

Adytus wrote:Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:18 amYeah, that can be cleared up. What other regions have outposts, if any?

According to the Grey Wardens' forum (although other regions may privately host outposts, I am unaware if this is a case as I do not have an account on their forum), the other two regions that have outposts are SSR and SHIELD and Audaxia. SSR and SHIELD is virtually dead (founderless region with one nation) and Audaxia is wholly nonexistent. Looking at Eluvatar's WFE archive, however, Audaxia appeared to move to a region called Satius. However, Satius' use of the Neutral and Independent tags, combined with the fact that there is no indication of an outpost on their forum. Thus, I think it's probably safe to say that Mordor is the only region with an outpost at this moment.

Post by **Adytus** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:36 pm

Then I do not have a problem cutting that line from the proposal. Does anyone else have an argument about it?

Wymondham · Post by **Wymondham** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:12 am

I motion Adytus's proposal to a vote

Sygian · Post by **Sygian** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:36 pm

I don't see why we need the PRO law in there still. I understand that Tim's comment sounded like a threat to us but I do know that he cares about Osiris and her wellbeing and would not try to "burn it to the ground." There are many members of the Grey Wardens that have mentioned to me that they want to join Osiris and contribute to the community (we are the best, after all) but they aren't allowed to do so because of this law. I think that's sort of messed up, and I think adding certain individuals to a list as an exception would be tedious.

Post by **Adytus** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:42 pm

Sygian wrote:Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:36 pmI don't see why we need the PRO law in there still. I understand that Tim's comment sounded like a threat to us but I do know that he cares about Osiris and her wellbeing and would not try to "burn it to the ground." There are many members of the Grey Wardens that have mentioned to me that they want to join Osiris and contribute to the community (we are the best, after all) but they aren't allowed to do so because of this law. I think that's sort of messed up, and I think adding certain individuals to a list as an exception would be tedious.

The I know Tim has said this, wants that is just hearsay now with all the opinions about it and him. I cannot trust any of it. And there are several Wardens that think the other way. I have zero pity for people that want to join an organization that has claimed openly they would destroy us.

Sygian · Post by **Sygian** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:45 pm

So please, explain to me how they could "burn [Osiris] to the ground" if we let them back in. I am just curious.

Sygian · Post by **Sygian** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:46 pm

I don't see the point in keeping it, yet passing legislation that allows us to make exceptions. It should be all or none, and I'd prefer the latter.

Honors