[Discussion] Motion to Declare George Holland Persona Non Grata

[Dead Account]

I support this.

[Zaolat]

Against.

Any particular reasoning? This is a discussion period after all

Too many PNGs thrown around lately. Secondly, I haven't seen any of his "rants" against OFO yet and thirdly don't see him much a threat until it's shown otherwise.

It's not a personal opinion. So, I'm not biased towards/against him either way.

[Treize Dreizehn]

I motion this to vote.

[shetef]

Seconded.

[Venico]

Thirded

[Treize Dreizehn]

I'll be placing this up for vote tonight when the ISRA confirmation closes.

[War Wombat]

I think we have to ask ourselves if this guy is a security threat to Osiris or any of her members. I'm tempted to say that this measure is unnecessary

[Cormac]

I'll say this, and for personal reasons this is all I'll say in regard to this matter:

He is at least as much of a threat to our security as Tim, who never gave away a high influence, high endorsement nation -- second in endorsement count only to the Pharaoh. The best case scenario there was what occurred, which was ejection and ban of Mad Jack at significant influence cost to the Pharaoh. The worst case scenario is what thankfully did not occur, a coup d'etat, though it wasn't for lack of trying as the person in possession of Mad Jack tarted.

Obviously, George isn't responsible for what the person to whom he gave Mad Jack did with it afterward, but he is responsible for handing off the nation at all after we had entrusted him with the position of Vizier. He is also responsible for the actions that came before his recall, and the hostile position he has taken toward the Osiris Fraternal Order since his return to NationStates.

Does all of this mean we should declare him persona non grata? Not for me to say, and I would rather not say anyway. What it does mean is that if we're going to have any kind of consistency, Tim should not be treated more severely. If this persona non grata declaration doesn't pass, the Deshret should immediately repeal Tim's.

[shetef]

I'll say this, and for personal reasons this is all I'll say in regard to this matter:

He is at least as much of a threat to our security as Tim, who never gave away a high influence, high endorsement nation -- second in endorsement count only to the Pharaoh. The best case scenario there was what occurred, which was ejection and ban of Mad Jack at significant influence cost to the Pharaoh. The worst case scenario is what thankfully did not occur, a coup d'etat, though it wasn't for lack of trying as the person in possession of Mad Jack tarted.

Obviously, George isn't responsible for what the person to whom he gave Mad Jack did with it afterward, but he is responsible for handing off the nation at all after we had entrusted him with the position of Vizier. He is also responsible for the actions that came before his recall, and the hostile position he has taken toward the Osiris Fraternal Order since his return to NationStates.

Does all of this mean we should declare him persona non grata? Not for me to say, and I would rather not say anyway. What it does mean is that if we're going to have any kind of consistency, Tim should not be treated more severely. If this persona non grata declaration doesn't pass, the Deshret should immediately repeal Tim's.

You basically said what I was going to.

[Venico]

I really wish Georgie hadn't put us in this situation. :/ He has served Osiris well in the past which in my mind grants him some leniency...but I think I'll abstain on this one. He made aggressive moves towards us but I have some sort of irrational part of me that sees him as a friend and someone who did his best for Osiris before the OFO. So, I'll abstain because I know my reasoning isn't entirely logical.