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[Passed] On Proscribed Regions and Organizations
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:45 pm
by Omega
I will say this as well: a PNG Act would also serve as useful as sometimes there are individuals who should not be welcome, however, I do still maintain that having the legal infrastructure to restrict a whole region or group could be useful.
[Passed] On Proscribed Regions and Organizations
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:12 pm
by Sygian
Omega wrote:Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:45 pmI will say this as well: a PNG Act would also serve as useful as sometimes there are individuals who should not be welcome, however, I do still maintain that having the legal infrastructure to restrict a whole region or group could be useful.
What use is it serving now?
[Passed] On Proscribed Regions and Organizations
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:07 pm
by Ridersyl
Omega wrote:Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:45 pmI will say this as well: a PNG Act would also serve as useful as sometimes there are individuals who should not be welcome, however, I do still maintain that having the legal infrastructure to restrict a whole region or group could be useful.
I understand the concept of attempting to cover all of your bases, but as I've said before, restricting an entire region or group is too broad, and can catch innocent individuals up in the situation.
With the Wardens as an example, where the entire organization swore to destroy us? At the time, I just had left NationStates and started my 8-month break from the game.
Before then, I was a member of The Grey Wardens, and had just ended my term as Chief Vizier of Osiris.
I was part of the 'entire organization' of The Grey Wardens. I was one of their first members, in fact. I had no desire to destroy Osiris.
If it wasn't for the fact I had left NationStates,
I might have ended up as one of those innocent individuals caught in broad restriction of the entire region.
I hope that makes my point clear.
And for those of you thinking it...
I definitely have a bias in this discussion, and here's why.
Right now, with this act in place, I cannot be an Osiran and a Warden.
And I want to be able to a part of two communities that I enjoy spending time in.
[Passed] On Proscribed Regions and Organizations
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:57 pm
by Adytus
[justify]I have been talking to people over the past couple of days about this law, and have decided that this proposal is a good start to a compromise that will make the most people happy. I know it is not perfect, and all input is welcome. I was not sure whom, if any, names we should add to the Persona Non Grata list. So please be thinking about that. This would be an amendment to the legal code if anyone was wondering about that. Also, the Council of Guardians has not voted on Syl, but I do not believe anyone has any concerns right now, so I just went ahead and placed it in there. Thank you, everyone! [/justify]
[justify]Section 3: Persona Non Grata
(1) Persona Non Grata is defined as an individual that is highly dangerous to the stability and wellbeing of the Osiris community, or other communities abroad; it is encouraged to avoid them.
(2) The Council of Scribes may, with the assent of the Pharaoh, designate an individual as Persona Non Grata, and rescind the condemned status.
(3) The following individuals have been declared Persona Non Grata by the Council of Scribes, and are entirely prohibited in Osiris. The reason for the condemned status must be provided in this clause alongside the name of the individual – not sure who to put here. Please discuss people you believe should be on this list, if any. When giving a name, please also give a couple of sentences on why you believe they should be on the list.
(4) Clause three may automatically be updated by the Chief Scribe or legislative deputies upon the establishment or rescinding of a Persona Non Grata by the Council of Scribes.
Section 4: Proscribed Regions and Organizations
(1) The Council of Scribes may, with the assent of the Pharaoh, establish certain regions or organizations as proscribed, and rescind the proscribed status of these regions or organizations; however, it is encouraged that the Council of Scribes make use of Section 3 before considering this option.
(2) No individual participating in a proscribed region or organization may be admitted to citizenship until ending such participation.
(3) Citizenship will automatically be revoked from any citizen discovered to be participating in a proscribed region or organization, following a 72-hour grace period in which the citizen may end participation in the proscribed region or organization.
(4) Citizenship will automatically be revoked, without any grace period, from any citizen discovered to have been participating in a proscribed region or organization at the time of their admission to citizenship, if such participation was excluded from their application for citizenship.
(5) Any application for diplomatic visa or embassies filed on behalf of a proscribed region or organization will not be approved. Any embassy already maintained with a proscribed region or organization will immediately be closed.
(6) The following regions and organizations are established as proscribed regions and organizations: The Order of the Grey Wardens, and any region or organization hosting an official outpost of The Order of the Grey Wardens.
(7) Clause six and ten may automatically be updated by the Chief Scribe or legislative deputies upon the establishment or rescinding of proscribed regions or organizations by the Council of Scribes.
(8) The above provisions against participation in or diplomatic relations with proscribed regions or organizations will not apply to official diplomatic duties on behalf of other regions to the proscribed regions or organizations or to participation in invasion, occupation, conquest, infiltration for the purpose of espionage or subversion, or other such action taken against proscribed regions or organizations.
(9) The Council of Guardians may, by a majority vote, grant or repeal permission to any citizen for obtaining membership in a proscribed region or organization. If the citizen being considered by the Council of Guardians is a Guardian, then that Guardian will not be allowed to vote.
(10) The following individuals have been granted permission by the Council of Guardians to take part in a proscribed region or organization. The reason for the permission must be provided in this clause - Ridersyl has been granted permission by the Council of Guardians to have membership in the Order of the Grey Wardens with the intent of improving relations, ending hostilities, and helping rebuild trust for community members.
(11) If any region or organization declares war on Osiris, the Pharaoh may place that region or organization on the proscribed list. [/justify]
[Passed] On Proscribed Regions and Organizations
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:26 am
by Ridersyl
With my appointment as Vizier of Community Affairs, an upcoming vote in my appointment to the Council of Guardians, and an amendment in this thread specifically with the purpose of allowing me to be the "Osiran Warden" again... Just.. Wow, y'all. I'm already staying with the OFO for the rest of my NS life. You don't need to bribe me anymore.
In seriousness, I wouldn't recommend giving the amount of trust, respect, love, and responsibility you guys have been so willing to give me to
anyone that doesn't share the same genuine passion for our home and our OFO.
I'm really humbled by all of this, but I don't want to be the one that set a precedent of receiving overbearing gifts.
[Passed] On Proscribed Regions and Organizations
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:20 am
by Syberis
Syl, I love you to death, but the Wardens are on this list because of members of their leadership's express desire to coup Osiris again if given a chance. I don't remember if you were present for Tim's little explosion and flameout, but, frankly, if you want to defend, there are other options that aren't on this list. "Osiran Warden" is an oxymoron in my eyes, specifically because the Wardens see Osiris as a target. It's like "Raider Native."
Because of this, I do believe that membership in the Wardens should be disqualifying when it comes to Osiran citizenship. I'll go through the bill in a bit more depth later, but I don't like leaving loopholes like this is an act, especially considering that a lot of the power is divested from the Monarchy and the current PNG proposal, while well-intentioned, functions more like a shit list than an actual PNG act.
I will post later with my proposed changes to the proposal (...that's the most cumbersome sentence, but the best I can do before coffee)
[Passed] On Proscribed Regions and Organizations
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:12 am
by Wymondham
Section 3: Persona Non Grata
(1) Persona Non Grata is defined as an individual that is highly dangerous to the stability and wellbeing of the Osiris community, or other communities abroad; it is encouraged to avoid
(3) The following individuals have been declared Persona Non Grata by the Council of Scribes, and are entirely prohibited in Osiris. The reason for the condemned status must be provided in this clause alongside the name of the individual – not sure who to put here. Please discuss people you believe should be on this list, if any. When giving a name, please also give a couple of sentences on why you believe they should be on the list.
(4) Clause three may automatically be updated by the Chief Scribe or legislative deputies upon the establishment or rescinding of a Persona Non Grata by the Council of Scribes.
Section 4: Proscribed Regions and Organizations
(1) The Council of Scribes may, with the assent of the Pharaoh, establish certain regions or organizations as proscribed, and rescind the proscribed status of these regions or organizations; however, it is encouraged that the Council of Scribes make use of Section 3 before considering this option.
(2) No individual participating in a proscribed region or organization may be admitted to citizenship until ending such participation.
(3) Citizenship will automatically be revoked from any citizen discovered to be participating in a proscribed region or organization, following a 72-hour grace period in which the citizen may end participation in the proscribed region or organization.
(4) Citizenship will automatically be revoked, without any grace period, from any citizen discovered to have been participating in a proscribed region or organization at the time of their admission to citizenship, if such participation was excluded from their application for citizenship.
(5) Any application for diplomatic visa or embassies filed on behalf of a proscribed region or organization will not be approved. Any embassy already maintained with a proscribed region or organization will immediately be closed.
(6) The following regions and organizations are established as proscribed regions and organizations: The Order of the Grey Wardens, and any region or organization hosting an official outpost of The Order of the Grey Wardens.
(7) Clause six and ten may automatically be updated by the Chief Scribe or legislative deputies upon the establishment or rescinding of proscribed regions or organizations by the Council of Scribes.
(8) The above provisions against participation in or diplomatic relations with proscribed regions or organizations will not apply to official diplomatic duties on behalf of other regions to the proscribed regions or organizations or to participation in invasion, occupation, conquest, infiltration for the purpose of espionage or subversion, or other such action taken against proscribed regions or organizations.
(9) The Council of Guardians may, by a majority vote, grant or repeal permission to any citizen for obtaining membership in a proscribed region or organization. If the citizen being considered by the Council of Guardians is a Guardian, then that Guardian will not be allowed to vote.
(10) The following individuals have been granted permission by the Council of Guardians to take part in a proscribed region or organization. The reason for the permission must be provided in this clause - Ridersyl has been granted permission by the Council of Guardians to have membership in the Order of the Grey Wardens with the intent of improving relations, ending hostilities, and helping rebuild trust for community members.
(11) If any region or organization declares war on Osiris, the Pharaoh may place that region or organization on the proscribed list.
I would put tim stark any Valclav Vinnograd there because of the comments he has made which you can see in the securtiy sub forum
[Passed] On Proscribed Regions and Organizations
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:10 pm
by Adytus
[justify]After further discussion, I have changed my proposal to the following. There are several changes so please read carefully. The changes made are to prevent anyone from making the PNG and Proscibed Regions laws their own personal shit list, and retain the Pharaoh's role as head of security for the region; moreover, it also limits the loopholes that were concerning for Osiris' security. [/justify]
[justify]Section 3: Persona Non Grata
(1) The Pharaoh may, with assent from the Council of Scribes, designate an individual as Persona Non Grata, and rescind the condemned status.
(2) The following individuals have been declared Persona Non Grata by the Pharaoh and Council of Scribes, and are entirely prohibited in Osiris. The reason for the condemned status must be provided in this clause alongside the name of the individual –
(3) Clause three may automatically be updated by the Chief Scribe or legislative deputies upon the establishment or rescinding of a Persona Non Grata by the Pharaoh and Council of Scribes.
Section 4: Proscribed Regions and Organizations
(1) The Pharaoh may, with the assent of the Council of Scribes, establish certain regions or organizations as proscribed, and rescind the proscribed status of these regions or organizations; however, it is encouraged that the Pharaoh and Council of Scribes make use of Section 3 before considering this option.
(2) No individual participating in a proscribed region or organization may be admitted to citizenship until ending such participation.
(3) Citizenship will automatically be revoked from any citizen discovered to be participating in a proscribed region or organization, following a 72-hour grace period in which the citizen may end participation in the proscribed region or organization.
(4) Citizenship will automatically be revoked, without any grace period, from any citizen discovered to have been participating in a proscribed region or organization at the time of their admission to citizenship, if such participation was excluded from their application for citizenship.
(5) Any application for diplomatic visa or embassies filed on behalf of a proscribed region or organization will not be approved. Any embassy already maintained with a proscribed region or organization will immediately be closed.
(6) The following regions and organizations are established as proscribed regions and organizations: The Order of the Grey Wardens, and any region or organization hosting an official outpost of The Order of the Grey Wardens.
(7) Clause six may automatically be updated by the Chief Scribe or legislative deputies upon the establishment or rescinding of proscribed regions or organizations by the Council of Scribes.
(8) The above provisions against participation in or diplomatic relations with proscribed regions or organizations will not apply to official diplomatic duties on behalf of other regions to the proscribed regions or organizations or to participation in invasion, occupation, conquest, infiltration for the purpose of espionage or subversion, or other such action taken against proscribed regions or organizations.
(9) If any region or organization declares war on Osiris, the Pharaoh may place that region or organization on the proscribed list. [/justify]
[Passed] On Proscribed Regions and Organizations
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:11 am
by Wymondham
Adytus wrote:Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:10 am[justify]After further discussion, I have changed my proposal to the following. There are several changes so please read carefully. The changes made are to prevent anyone from making the PNG and Proscibed Regions laws their own personal shit list, and retain the Pharaoh's role as head of security for the region; moreover, it also limits the loopholes that were concerning for Osiris' security. [/justify]
[justify]Section 3: Persona Non Grata
(1) The Pharaoh may, with assent from the Council of Scribes, designate an individual as Persona Non Grata, and rescind the condemned status.
(2) The following individuals have been declared Persona Non Grata by the Pharaoh and Council of Scribes, and are entirely prohibited in Osiris. The reason for the condemned status must be provided in this clause alongside the name of the individual –
(3) Clause three may automatically be updated by the Chief Scribe or legislative deputies upon the establishment or rescinding of a Persona Non Grata by the Pharaoh and Council of Scribes.
Section 4: Proscribed Regions and Organizations
(1) The Pharaoh may, with the assent of the Council of Scribes, establish certain regions or organizations as proscribed, and rescind the proscribed status of these regions or organizations; however, it is encouraged that the Pharaoh and Council of Scribes make use of Section 3 before considering this option.
(2) No individual participating in a proscribed region or organization may be admitted to citizenship until ending such participation.
(3) Citizenship will automatically be revoked from any citizen discovered to be participating in a proscribed region or organization, following a 72-hour grace period in which the citizen may end participation in the proscribed region or organization.
(4) Citizenship will automatically be revoked, without any grace period, from any citizen discovered to have been participating in a proscribed region or organization at the time of their admission to citizenship, if such participation was excluded from their application for citizenship.
(5) Any application for diplomatic visa or embassies filed on behalf of a proscribed region or organization will not be approved. Any embassy already maintained with a proscribed region or organization will immediately be closed.
(6) The following regions and organizations are established as proscribed regions and organizations: The Order of the Grey Wardens, and any region or organization hosting an official outpost of The Order of the Grey Wardens.
(7) Clause six may automatically be updated by the Chief Scribe or legislative deputies upon the establishment or rescinding of proscribed regions or organizations by the Council of Scribes.
(8) The above provisions against participation in or diplomatic relations with proscribed regions or organizations will not apply to official diplomatic duties on behalf of other regions to the proscribed regions or organizations or to participation in invasion, occupation, conquest, infiltration for the purpose of espionage or subversion, or other such action taken against proscribed regions or organizations.
(9) If any region or organization declares war on Osiris, the Pharaoh may place that region or organization on the proscribed list. [/justify]
Can the council of scribes by itself make someone PNG
[Passed] On Proscribed Regions and Organizations
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:04 pm
by Adytus
The CoS can't do anything by itself without assent from the Pharaoh already, I don't see the need to allow anyone and everyone to declare whoever PNG.