Osiris Fraternal Order

If we don't ratify this non-aggression pact, we will be affirming that we are every bit as unreasonable and intolerant of defenders as we have constantly been accused of being.

The Deshret needs to be aware of that before rejecting this treaty.

I've said what I have to say and it's up to the Deshret now.

Not making treaties with regions who A) are irrelevant and B) don't hold any of our regional values is what every region should do. That doesn't make us intolerant, that doesn't make us unreasonable. It means we're not going to pass useless legislation that doesn't fall within our regional scope.

If ignorant people want to call this intolerant then they can be my guest. We could propose a non aggression treaty with the UDL, TEK, the NPO...all of these will get the same response from me. It's useless and not in our interests to take steps in this direction.

I'll be voting for this treaty.

Personally I don't care what Unibot or TRR thinks about us.

But there are other positives here, and ultimately this Treaty does us no damage.

Venico, literally the only regions that fall within our current regional military values are imperialist and raider regions. We are isolating ourselves if we sign treaties only with them. If we look at broader values, The Rejected Realms respects the sovereignty of other Feeders and Sinkers, as do we, and The Rejected Realms is a democracy, as are we. It would not benefit Osiris to restrict ourselves only to our military values.

To call The Rejected Realms irrelevant is absurd. The Rejected Realms is a Sinker, and it's not like we're committing to mutual defense or military cooperation. We're committing to not attacking each other.

I support this treaty. This doesn't mean we're changing our ideology, or that we're going to all of a sudden become best friends with TRR. It shows that we're reasonable, and opens doors--or at least greases the hinges of the doors--that right now are closed to us. This is not saying we'll not be meeting RRA or FRUDL on the battle field. It simply provides support to the theory that we do what is in the best interest of Osiris, regardless of the perception that we are intolerant to defenders, or a puppet state of another organization. Osiris is a sovereign region, and anyone who thinks otherwise is mistaken.

I don't understand how a Non Aggression Pact with a region that doesn't attack is useful at all. And Cormac I am perfectly willing to sign a treaty with neutrals, imperialists, raiders, independents, whatever. Just because they're a democracy that doesn't attack GCRs doesn't mean we should start signing treaties with everyone in that criteria. I am inherently against pointless legislation and no one has pointed out a benefit to us besides "People will think better of us because we'll be friends with anyone." I don't care about outside opinion and I don't think we should pass legislation based on the way foreign regions will think of us.

I'll be voting nay and I suppose since the overwhelming support of this is indicative that my views are out dated I'll shut up on discussions from now on and let my higher ups decide. Vive la Nouvelle OFO.

What is TRR's opinion of this treaty?

Venico, nobody is attacking you because you have a different opinion, but expecting us not to defend the agreement we're proposing is a bit unrealistic.

The benefit for us is putting reality to paper -- we already weren't going to attack The Rejected Realms -- and proving that we are not in fact unreasonable, intolerant toward defenders, and beholden to foreign powers. You may not care what anyone else thinks, but Osiris isn't a raider region, it's a Sinker with political and diplomatic considerations. Osiris has to care what others think, and an agreement that only affirms something we weren't going to do anyway, does no harm to Osiris, and disproves what a large portion of people outside Osiris think of us is in fact beneficial.

War Wombat wrote:Mon May 26, 2014 1:33 amWhat is TRR's opinion of this treaty?

Their Delegate and Minister of Foreign Affairs support it, having been involved in the negotiations. I have no idea what the TRR Assembly thinks yet as the discussion isn't publicly visible to non-citizens, though I will remain in contact with Guy.

You say two things. "We should pass this to appease foreign powers!" "We should pass this to show we're not beholden to foreign powers!" You can't have both. If Osiris worries about Osiran opinions rather than the opinions of the outside world we'd be a lot better off. Just because you think we should be all happy and nice with all the GCRs doesn't mean Osiris has to.

I understand we're a sinker. I understand that they're a sinker too. Those are just tags and hold no significant meaning to our relationship with them. Just because we were both born with the same tag doesn't mean we should have relations with them.

And if we should pass NAPs with regions who we weren't going to attack, why don't we get one going with TEK? How about The Capital of the alliance ? How about any foundered region? Let's pass all the useless legislation and prevent ourselves from any attack ever!

I stand by my previous sentiments that this is unnecessary and we should not pass unnecessary legislation that does not provide a direct benefit to us.

Most of NationStates believes that the Osiris Fraternal Order is a puppet of the raider-imperialist sphere, not a sovereign government. We will not be better off if we ignore that and do nothing to change it; we will be isolated and restricted to relations only with the tiny minority of regions that don't believe that, with citizenry drawn only from those regions.

We will, in essence, be Lazarus prior to the PRL.

No thanks.