[Discussion] Colonies and Territories Act

[Venico]

Colonies and Territories Act

Section 1: Governing

1) Governors shall be Deshret members, appointed by the Pharaoh or by the previous Governor of that territory, to lead colonies, maintain the founder nation, and ultimately manage the region.

2) The Pharaoh will also have access to this founder account, in the case of inactivity by the Governor.

Section 2: Rules of Governing

1) The colony must maintain that it is under the control of Osiris in the World Factbook Entry

2) The Governor is free to apply Osiris law, or manage the region as they see fit.

3) The password of the founder account may only be changed with approval from the Pharaoh

4) Dissolution of a colony requires approval from both the Pharaoh and a majority vote by the Deshret.

Section 3: Transferring of Governor

Section 3: Transferring of Governor

1) Unless convicted of a crime, loss of citizenship, loss of Deshret status, or if the founder nation falls inactive, the role of Governor stays with the citizen who is appointed, or a successor named by the appointed.

So I managed to get this from AoE who scavenged the old Osi forums for it. Thoughts on if we'd like to reapply this?

My thoughts are that if we're going to have a military that actively refounds regions, we need to have a way to manage this without setting this burden on the government. This also gives us a way to allow our colonies to become something more than a trophy and reward citizens for their good work. This act also avoids these regions being governed and messed with by Osiris but instead make them the Governor's responsibility to turn it into something more than a trophy, or just keep it as a snazzy reward.

Cons that I see? This requires nation sharing. This should be an up front warning to any governor. All commanders of the Sekhmet should be willing to nation share anyways. This also kind of allows regions to make their way from Osiris a bit. In that our laws won't apply to them and that they can do whatever. But I see this as a good thing as an iron grip doesn't leave room for growth, but I can understand these concerns.

[Andrew]

It looks similar to the one that Lord Ravenclaw introduced (if its not the exact one). But as I said when Lord Ravenclaw introduced the draft, i see a problem with this clause.

The Governor is free to apply Osiris law, or manage the region as they see fit.

This makes the governor too powerful in my opinion. Being 'free' to apply Osiris law, or manage the region as they see 'fit'. This gives him power to possibly bypass Osiran Law and mould it into their own utopia under protection of the Osiris Fraternal Order

[Venico]

Yes, Raven posted my old draft but it is originally mine as you can tell from the crappy legislating language. =P

To address your point, applying Osiran law to a colony gets...messy. Would citizens have to jump onto our forum and apply to be citizens? Would they get to participate in the deshret or would they get their own deshret? Would we then pass laws in our deshret to manage their region? If the governor banned a nation from the region that was also a citizen here would they face any punishment? Do they get to vote for Pharaoh? Could one RUN for Pharaoh? All of these questions are easily answered by not making it part of Osiris and instead making it a colony with its own laws and allowing the Governor to manage as they see fit.

I think granting more autonomy and giving the governor the freedom to shape their region is better compared to imposing our laws on them. UCRs have a slew of issues they have to worry about and deal with that we don't. We're a safe and secure region that cannot CTE and gets nations every day for free. The governor is powerful because he's the founder (a foreign concept around these parts =P) and de facto leader of the region. This way the region has a chance to grow on its own and might actually be sustainable on its own if we ever release it from its colony status.

[Andrew]

I see your points on having an independent colony as well as giving it ability to manage themselves and they are valid. But i still think the Regional Governors power should have some limit. But lets see what my other colleagues think

[Venico]

What limit would you impose? They are the founder of the region. They have unlimited power with that. I say let them use it to make the region into something. Best case scenario is we end up with a thriving UCR we can pull members from and can lay claim to. Worst case scenario is the governor leaves it as is and it's a memorial for a victory of the Legion. What abuses can you see?

As a general question, what about requiring an embassy with Osiris? I was thinking of making them fly the Osiran flag but that seemed too over bearing. I think requiring an embassy is a nice touch. I also think there should be a clause requiring the OFO to defend its colonies if a threat of invasion rears its head. Thoughts?

[Cormac]

Off the top of my head, after a first glance:

- I don't care for the way governors are appointed. Colonies are the territory of Osiris, so a governor shouldn't be able to name a successor. Governors should always be appointed by the Pharaoh. Given that a governor will manage regional territory on behalf of Osiris, which is a significant responsibility, I believe such appointments should also be confirmed by the Deshret. Governors should definitely be subject to recall.

- References to "the Commander of the Sekhmet Legion" are problematic. Article IV, vii. of the Treaty of the Old Gods delegates command of the Legion to the ISRA Joint Commander, and I feel this is probably not your intended "Commander of the Sekhmet Legion" in this legislation.

- I share Andrew's concerns in regard to management of regional territory and granting governors too much power, though I also understand your point about Osiran law not necessarily being applicable. This is something we need to give more thought, I think.

- Section 2.3 of this legislation contradicts Section 1.1 of the Criminal Codex of the Osiris Fraternal Order Act, which mandates that "[o]nly offenses outlined in this Act will be considered crimes under Osiran law." So, essentially, we can amend the Criminal Codex to include dissolution of a colony, but we can't define it as a crime in this legislation. The purpose of this is so that Osirans have one law and only one law they need to look at to know if they're committing a crime.

I'll give this another read later and see if anything else stands out. I do think we need to legislate how colonies and other regional territories are governed, and I think this is a good start but can use some fleshing out.

[Venico]

Yeah, some of the naming is outdated like Commander of the Sekhmet should probably become Scribe of the Sekhmet. And now that we actually have laws we don't need the law line.

I think a governor should appoint their successor because this ends with more power in the region's hands and the Governor's hands. It'd be a tragedy if someone built up a region and had to leave, but they couldn't appoint someone they trusted with the region. The Governor can only appoint a successor who falls within the requirements for the job. If we'd like to restrict the requirements for Governor a bit, I'd be ok with that. But I think a leader of a region should have the ability to see their region not suddenly undermined by the next guy who was chosen by someone who doesn't KNOW the region.

VeniEdit: Addressed some of the wording issues. See if that looks any better.

[Andrew]

I agree with Cormac. Im not sure on what possible limits that could be imposed to an 'unlimited founder' as I cannot think of any at the moment but will possible get to it later .

But if i may ask a question regarding this statement

This way the region has a chance to grow on its own and might actually be sustainable on its own if we ever release it from its colony status.

What would stop the Governor from taking the Region as his own. If it does 'grow' and become 'large' the Governor may start getting 'ideas'. And whats to say he has to wait until we give the 'release from its colony status'; he could take it himself by just changing the password on the Founder account

[Venico]

Well we would need to instate laws that he would lose citizenship for doing this and be stripped of all positions within Osiris for committing this theft. However, like Cormac pointed out, this treaty can't do that and we'd need to pass a law with it.

The ORIGINAL bill made it treasonous to do such things. But this was passed in a time of Osiris when we had no laws and no constitution. So now we would need to comply with that.

VeniEdit: Made it so that the Governor and any successor must be a member of the Deshret. A) This limits the pool of people who can own the colony to just those that we would trust with our own government. B) This gives us a way to recall them. C) Also makes sure that they have to stay active in Osiris also.

[Andrew]

So they would suffer a loss of their citizenship and all government positions held in Osiris. But they would still have a grown Region under their custody.

I have an idea and I have completely not thought it through, but an idea anyway. Rather than the Governor share the Founder account :the Governor would be the Delegate. And Founder account would be shared by a certain group of individuals and would only serve as a security purpose and in-game management ,on instruction of the governor, when they cannot.

This would rid us of the 'treason' issue and could encourage new nations ,specifically WA's, to the 'independent colony' causing it to grow. But as i said i have not thought it through sooo........Thoughts?