[#6] The Empire: Lies, Damn Lies, & Propaganda (2017)

[Malphe]

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This appears to be a discord log of a presentation headed by Neo Kervoskia on the history of the Empire from a World Fair, not entirely sure which. Goes into the role Empire played in Osiris. I've cleaned up the formatting and a few of the rougher bits from when this was copy/pasted, like (edited) tags, but spelling is unchanged. Tentatively attributing this to Neo Kervoskia, but several people have contributed to this text. This could be from either late 2016 or early 2017 judging from references to Neo Kervoskia's reign and when it was posted in TRR, I'm going with 2017.

Archived TRR Source
Author: Neo Kervoskia
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Todd McCloud - Today at 8:02 PM
@Everyone Welcome to the FIRST Lecture of what promises to be a riveting series of talks. The individual giving our first lecture truly needs no introduction, but we'll do it anyway. Griffin, whose main nation name is Neo Kervoskia, has enjoyed a rather colorful history throughout NationStates and has made a name for himself in multiple avenues. Recently, this nation became the delegate of Osiris, one of several game-created regions in NationStates!

His lecture is entitled: "The Empire: Lies, Damn Lies, & Propaganda". He provided a teaser on the forums, but this session will generally be treated as a Q&A session. We will allow our lecturer some time to perhaps speak and introduce the topic and some concepts, then we will field questions from the #audience_chamber
Neo Kervoskia, I now yeild the floor to you. Thank you in advance for your time.

Griffin - Today at 8:07 PM
Thank you Todd for allowing me to kick off the NSWF. Hello I'm NK - former NPO Senator of Propaganda and one-fourth of that shadowy cabal known as The Empire. Over the years there's been alot of misonceptions about The Empire - quite a few of them spun by your truly for one purpose of another. Tonight I want to to clear the air. Any questions you have I will answer to the best of my recollection. Remember I'm a geriatric by NS standards, but I will do my utmost to answer fully.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:09 PM
Neat. I'll start with a few questions that will kind of help bring new people up to speed. What was the Empire, what goals did they try to accomplish, and why do they seem to have a nefarious stigma across NS Gameplay?

Griffin - Today at 8:12 PM
The Empire was a group formed by Biyah (formerly of the Alliance Defence Network), Dalimbar (Red Liberty Alliance), Minneenee (TWP), and myself (NPO) around 2008. We had all known each other for years by that point, at least by reputation. In fact we were all rivals with each other at one point or another. For example, when Dalimbar was delegate of TNP and I was a Senator, the Emperor at the time, Moo-Cows with guns, wanted Dali to coup TNP in the name of NPO. Well, the browbeating didn't work and we fought each other tooth and nail. Funny how it all works out in the end.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:13 PM
Heh, I remember Moo. He was a juicy target during those pile-on raids so common in 2006-7

Griffin - Today at 8:14 PM
Our goals? We were disgusted by the newer generation of players. At the time we believed they had no vision, no instincts, nothing worth nurturing. We wanted to show them how NS was done. We sought power - as much of it as we could get for as long as we could hold it.
Remember Influence had just been introduced and alot of the older generation were crying that the sky was falling and the end was nigh. We wanted to show you could still take a region and our first target was TEP. Luckily for us their delegate, Gnid, was largely inactive so it was all a matter of timing and slowly accumulating endorsements. We decided to conceal our identies and work under aliases. Mine was Lord Griffin, which nearly a decade later I chose as my regnal name in Osiris.
Why are nefarious? We couped regions unmercilessly.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:18 PM
True. I remember when The Empire arrived in TEP. The region was not prepared for your group

Griffin - Today at 8:18 PM
I'd be infuriated too if my government were toppled.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:19 PM
They were. Though, it was difficult at first. Gnidrah left, and Loop got himself banned from the region

Griffin - Today at 8:19 PM
You made it easy for us - and we only had minnow influence.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:20 PM
Many individuals, even from TEP, joined your new forums and offered to be "cleansed" for the purposes of The Empire

Griffin - Today at 8:20 PM
That's where we took it a bridge too far. The whole cleaning thing was RP that got away from us.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:21 PM
Oh?

Griffin - Today at 8:21 PM
I've never been an RPer, but the general idea was to make them feel like this was the reckoning.
Personally I would have just purged them.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:22 PM
Ha. Yeah, the problem was coups in feeders weren't all that common at the time, and when a region is couped, it tends to attract a large contingency of new players
But my question is this: how long were you planning on staying in TEP, and did you have any grand plans that didn't come to fruition?

Griffin - Today at 8:23 PM
But they eventually fought back and worked to rebuild their region.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:23 PM
Indeed, the region was having a difficult go, and didn't quite grasp the influence concept just yet. Only a few nations - A Slanted Black Stripe and Dannistaan - posed influence threats, but they overcame eventually

Griffin - Today at 8:24 PM
After that we did a few minor projects, but our biggest was yet to come - Osiris in 2012.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:24 PM
Ah yes, the Osiris coup. The second time the Empire was front and center in the spotlight

Griffin - Today at 8:25 PM
That wasn't the original plan though.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:25 PM
Oh yeah?

Griffin - Today at 8:27 PM
Originally I was going to resign from the Council of Ma'at - a body I created when I wrote the constitution that would serve to obstruct and restrain an uncooperative delegate - and run for delegate legitimately. I even convinced the vice-delegate at the time, Quadrimmina, to be my running mate. But Earth found out, or so I think, so we had to re-evaluate. We were already losing our grip in the region and it'd only be a matter of time before we were completely marginalized.
So we decided to coup. We spoke with Nevadar of GV and cut a deal for her support. Even then though it wasn't enough. We were short and it was about ten minutes to update. Biyah kept going back and forth if we should do it. We must have called it off then back on half a dozen times. We were screaming at each other trying to decide. Finally we came up with a hail mary pass to covince the UDL to endorse me to prevent sleeper agents from pushing me over the top.
I remember right after update Tim came to me. He said something like, "If this is a trick, and you coup, I will bring you down." To which I responded, "Hail The Empire."

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:31 PM
Wow. So I take it the immediate fallout was spectacular to say the least

Griffin - Today at 8:31 PM
We surprised and ecstatic that we pulled it off.
I suppose you heard the reason we gave at the time for the coup?

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:33 PM
Gosh this was five years ago or so. I remember it was to prevent against a coup in general - it was right after the LizLemons fiasco

Griffin - Today at 8:34 PM
And something along the lines of, "we couped to point out the holes in the constitution."

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:34 PM
Heh. So arguing for a more legal coup? Like a 'prove us wrong' sort of thing

Griffin - Today at 8:35 PM
That was, to be frank, a load of horseshit.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:35 PM
I do remember at that time the region was extremely toxic. Many of us turned into officiating crews, and some were caught in the crossfire

Griffin - Today at 8:35 PM
Of course there were holes. We put them there to control the levers of government. I designed the constitution in such a way that if one part were removed, the whole thing would self-destruct.
And so it did. And that toxicity you talked about was a product of that.
It was by design.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:37 PM
Yes. The fights behind the scenes were brutal. Was it all by design to keep the region in that sort of chaos so folks would be fighting over themselves instead of maintaining focus on the Empire?

Griffin - Today at 8:37 PM
Yes.
But that's not why we couped.
We couped to punish those who sought to marginalize us - rightfully so on their part.
The general wisdom in NS is that Biyah is the most fiendish of us all, the most nefarious, the most uncaring. Publicly, perhaps that's true. Privately, in the inner workings of The Empire, it was not.
That blood thirsty distinction falls on me.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:40 PM
I figured as much. Biyah was known for being very emotive at times and wore his emotions on his sleeve. I suppose that's why he was at the forefront of a lot of this

Griffin - Today at 8:40 PM
Biyah is the reason the coup only lasted a day.
The rest of us wanted to punish Osiris, to hurt the region, and crush the community. The idea was to hold it as long as we could and make sure the resulting war was as toxic and bitter as possible. Biyah didn't want that but I sure as hell wasn't about to step down.
There was another heated discussion but Biyah wouldn't back down, not even when the rage was high. Eventually he talked us down and we gave it up, but we held a grudge for years afterwards.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:43 PM
This begs a few more questions, which may be disruptive, but are worth discussing: Is the Empire still fragmented? Could it ever return?

Griffin - Today at 8:43 PM
The Empire was never an org like UDL or TBH or anything like that.
We were a group of friends who'd known each other for quite a long time and trusted each other absolutely.
Whenever there's more than one of us in any region, people think The Empire's coming.
Or when I do something somebody disagrees with.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:45 PM
Indeed, it's kind of the NS equivalent of calling someone a racist, it seems.
If someone's accused of being a member of the Empire, they're immediately sitgmatized

Griffin - Today at 8:46 PM
After we were exiled from Osiris in 2013 we drifted into the shadows, but people thought we controlled everything when in truth we had nothing to do and were a bit disheartened.
But we got the reputation we deserved. I take it as neither a positive nor a negative thing.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:47 PM
Does The Empire have any semblence of control among regions? Hidden or not?
And could they ever come back?

Griffin - Today at 8:47 PM
People will say The Empire controls Osiris because I sit in the seat.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:48 PM
Indeed, there were several accusations volleyed against you in December

Griffin - Today at 8:48 PM
Nothing new.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:49 PM
With the foreknowledge of the dealings over the Empire, is there anything you'd like to say to those accusatory individuals?

Griffin - Today at 8:49 PM
If it keeps you active, do it.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:49 PM
heh

Griffin - Today at 8:49 PM
I saw Ike had a question.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:50 PM
He did
From @Ike Also a question: Given that you had the most destructive of intentions heading into Osiris, and then worked to help the NPO puppet Lazarus, what are the intentions this time around as Pharaoh? I can believe that you genuinely want to help, but there has to be something more to it than that.

Griffin - Today at 8:50 PM
Indeed there is, Ike.
I hurt Osiris - I fucked them over. I won't deny that. The toxicity, the infighting, the isolation - I am responsible to a large degree for it.
My counsel was not always forthcoming or beneficial, which might have mitigated some rash decisions.
I want to fix what I broke.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:53 PM
How do you intend on doing that?

Griffin - Today at 8:55 PM
Get it on a stable footing and trust the younger generation, but most it is gradual and doesn't lend itself to a grand plan.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:55 PM
Next question comes from @Escade 1. Can a region like Osiris which has been through a lot "reset" and release the toxicity and dysfunction with you at the helm?

Griffin - Today at 8:57 PM
I would like to believe it can, but it's not up for me to decide, it's for Osiris to judge.
I know how it got so toxic and all the traps laid down and it is my goal before I CTE to reverse it.

Todd McCloud - Today at 8:58 PM
I have a question (sorry @Escade I'll get to your other q's) What do you suppose Osiris would have been had you not couped?
like, what would the course of its history become?

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:00 PM
Some have argued that a coup in TEP was necessary to reset the region and bring new activity into it. Is this the same for Osiris?

Griffin - Today at 9:01 PM
The coup brought alot of things into the open, some necessary some not. There would have been battles, but it would have been more of a cold war.
You mean the 2012 coup?

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:02 PM
Yes

Griffin - Today at 9:03 PM
Coups aren't necessary for change, they just accelerate it.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:04 PM
I agree with that on principle, but eventually regions become so far gone, in my opinion, that only a sudden and disturbing change can really pull them from the dark halls of inactivity
The trouble is, coups generally generate a lot of drama and tend to significantly disrupt the influx of individuals coming and leaving the region. Long coups, as the case of TEP, significantly altered the landscape of the region
Sorry, that's kind of my feeling on it
Next comes from @Ike : Also another question: Your controversy with Cormac and the big fiasco about his legacy late last year also included the charge that you and the Empire folk were the ones who convinced/forced him to become a deeply involved dictator rather than the apolitical monarchy that you've more or less established. Any commentary on that?

Griffin - Today at 9:10 PM
In the end, the Pharaoh is the one who decides and once a decision was made, I did not think it proper to question it. That does not absolve me of everything that happned in Osiris during my predecessor's reign. I was Cormac's closest advisor and he and I acted on the best information we had the time. He didn't take all the advice he was given - but no Delegate does or should for that matter - and at times I didn't speak up because I didn't think it was my place.
If Cormac feels I led him astray or that my intentions weren't always clear, I apologize.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:11 PM
This question comes from @Syberis : What do you see yourself doing in this game 2 years from now?

Griffin - Today at 9:12 PM
Teaching you some manners.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:12 PM
Aimed at @Syberis , I take it

Griffin - Today at 9:12 PM
Yes.
I bear no ill will towards Cormac for December. He took the policy changes personally. And I tend to forget that politics can be personal.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:14 PM
This question comes from @Escade : Why do you play NationStates? What about it appeals to you most beyond the rise to power?

Griffin - Today at 9:15 PM
It's relaxing. I never play if I'm in a sour mood or if I have RL obligations of any sort, so it's a pleasant exercise.
The rise to power is exhiliarting, but there's a difference between couping and governing.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:16 PM
That's refreshing. There was a player, I won't name names, who in December spoke to me personally about how NS was almost as important as a real job. The sentiment of that startles me.

Griffin - Today at 9:17 PM
NS is a game and I treat it as such.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:18 PM
What makes the game fun versus, well, boring or perhaps distasteful?

Griffin - Today at 9:19 PM
I love the political aspect and the intrigue.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:20 PM
Will we ever see the Empire return in some kind of capacity?

Griffin - Today at 9:21 PM
No but that won't stop others from seeing Empire if they really want to.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:22 PM
nods
Another question from @Ike What specific aspects of Osiran culture/reputation will you be trying to fix or re-mold as you go about your term? In other words, how you intend to go about cleaning up.

Griffin - Today at 9:23 PM
It's not so much about remolding, but letting the community grow. I'm a guiding hand and a counselor. I'm not an autocrat any longer.
The government is full of younger nations - Syberis, Adytus, and Sygian to name a few. I trust them and it's my duty to help them grow and build Osiris, but not dictate to them.
When I am gone, I will be gone. Should Syberis decide to pursue a different course, then it is his right and duty to do so.
A good number disagree with what I've done so far and would rather see a different direction, but I know what I've done so far is right and beneficial for Osiris.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:27 PM
If there was one thing you could change about osiris right now, what would it be?

Griffin - Today at 9:29 PM
That's for the community to decide.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:30 PM
Fair enough. But I asked for your opinion on the matter!

Griffin - Today at 9:30 PM
The Pharaoh ought not to hold such views.
Or rather, never espouse them.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:32 PM
The Pharaoh is only meant to absorb ideas and not produce them?

Griffin - Today at 9:33 PM
Prior to our constitutional reform, the Pharaoh did lead and in fact controlled every facet of Osiris. Such is not the case now. The Pharaoh is the Head of State and a counselor. The Chief Vizier (our Prime Minister) leads our government.
And I will be there to offer my advice and help where I can - whoever it may be while I am Pharaoh.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:34 PM
Question from @Escade : What kind of music does NK listen to? Is it country?

Griffin - Today at 9:35 PM
NK is a nation with no interests beyond the confines of GP.
But the player behind NK does like classical music.
Or so I have heard.
And to answer Kondratev's question They chart the course, but I keep them from following down the same path I did so many years ago.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:38 PM
From @Ike : superbowl champ?
For reference, @Kondratev 's question was "An earlier answer said "I know how it got so toxic and all the traps laid down and it is my goal before I CTE to reverse it." If that is the goal, why are you unwilling to state what changes need to be made?"

Griffin - Today at 9:38 PM
I think the Dodgers will win.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:40 PM
If by Dodgers you mean any team but the Steelers, that's good enough for me

Griffin - Today at 9:40 PM
Yes, that.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:41 PM
Alright, NK. 100 minutes. Want me to scour the #audience_chamber for some final questions or would you like to move to some closing remarks?

Griffin - Today at 9:41 PM
I can answer a few more.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:42 PM
neat.
What is your opinion on the current climate of the game? Has the general behavior of nations changed from a few years ago, or are the patterns now pretty much the same as they always have been?

Griffin - Today at 9:43 PM
It may be because I'm old, but nations seem to take things more personally now than they did back then.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:44 PM
Why do you suppose that is?

Griffin - Today at 9:45 PM
Basically, I dunno.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:46 PM
From @Badger With the changes that have been made to the mechanics of the game. Are coups the scale of what The Empire achieved still possible?

Griffin - Today at 9:47 PM
Yes, coups are always possible. Same as there will always be defenders and there will always be raiders, there will always be coupers.
The names and titles may change, but there's still an art in it.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:50 PM
From @Ike What was behind your return from the shadows to help prop up the NLO in 2015? Given as you're still banned from Lazarus, maybe you could shed some light.

Griffin - Today at 9:51 PM
Lingering anger and resentment about Osiris. I wanted to use NLO as a hammer against OFO. Lazarus was innocent in the whole affair and was just caught in the crosshairs.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:52 PM
Alrighty, it's nearing two hours NK. Wanna close it out?

Griffin - Today at 9:52 PM
Sure.
Alot can be said about The Empire and what we did. Whether we're judged good or evil, we've left our mark on NationStates and changed the course of history for a number of nations and regions. Whether we come back or not, who knows, we may be behind this entire World Fair.
Hail!

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:54 PM
OOOOOHHH
Naw, lol
Thank you for your time and enriching the populace with some very important perspectives and historical information. All the best!

Griffin - Today at 9:55 PM
Shout to my bestie Glen Rhodes.

Todd McCloud - Today at 9:56 PM
Will do