[Passed] Removal of Tim Stark

Syberis · Post by **Syberis** » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:16 pm

My Fellow Osirans,

We have had a very interesting day today, and one that I do not wish to relive anytime soon. However, there is a simple matter on the horizon. Tim Stark has shown that his loyalty to The Grey Wardens overrides his loyalty to Osiris, and action does need to be taken in that regards. I, for one, do not wish to see someone who does not care for Osiris among the Priesthood. All claims of morality aside, ultimately, his own words today show a support for a hostile action against a region which we had held for many years.

Additionally, we have seen next to nothing of Tim since our declaration of alignment, and I hardly believe that he truly cares what direction this region goes in at this point. Why should we allow someone who doesn't care for Osiris serve in our judiciary? Why would we let someone who doesn't care about us interpret our laws, and try criminals against us? In fact, someone who has shown support for a hostile act against us just may protect those who wish us harm in the future, should they be brought to trial before him?

It is with great sadness that I make this motion, but I can see no other alternative that does right by Osiris. I therefore approach the Council of Scribes with a simple proposal; the removal of Tim Stark from any government office, including that of Senior Guardsman and Priest of Osiris. (as per SoM II:2(3)). This is my home and to see her disrespected by a nation once so revered and dedicated to Osiris is heartbreaking.

And, I would like to motion for a vote immediately, so as not to delay justice any further. Keep in mind that discussion can still be had while we wait for seconds to push this to vote.

Post by **Adytus** » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:18 pm

I second the motion.

Scieca · Post by **Scieca** » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:07 pm

I second the motion as well.

Cormac · Post by **Cormac** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:03 am

I will, regrettably, assent to this, if it is the will of the Council of Scribes.

I have no choice, given present circumstances, but to also express my personal support for removing Tim from office. Tim and I have been friends for years, and I find it hard to believe it's come to this over a group of defender trolls that probably won't still exist this time next year, but as Pharaoh I must look out for the safety and security of Osiris first, not my personal feelings or friendships. Tim has not demonstrated today that his service as a Priest is conducive to Osiran security; unfortunately, he has demonstrated the opposite.

I will note, however, that Chief Vizier Biyah has already dismissed Tim from his position as Senior Guardsman of the Pharaonic Guard. Recall would only apply to his service as a Priest.

Kaiser Adolf · Post by **Kaiser Adolf** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:07 am

I second the motion.

Amerion · Post by **Amerion** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:37 am

I do not agree with this motion at all.

As as former Pharoah of the OFO, Tim has served this region and her people with distinction. His record is unimpeachable and I am most distressed to learn of this proposal.

If the loyalties of nations to other regions are to play a part in an evaluation of their character and worthiness to hold office then I can think of a number of nations present in this Council and in government who would themselves be deemed ineligible to hold office. The times when a nation should hold office in one region alone has long passed us. We are now in an era of multi-regionalism and this proposal flies directly in the face of it.

The Pharoah himself, once ran for election in Lazarus not too long ago. Would he himself be considered unfit for office due to the relations between the two GCRs? I find that premise outdated and unjust.

I urge my fellow members to consider the history of Tim Stark. A person whose record far surpasses our own. Osiris owes him a debt of gratitude, just as it does Cormac and Koth.

Cormac · Post by **Cormac** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:32 am

Amerion, have you even read this post or the associated thread? This isn't about Tim merely participating in the Grey Wardens. Your entire post is based on a straw man argument which I have to assume is the result of not fully reviewing what's going on before posting.

Gradea · Post by **Gradea** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:39 am

Now at vote: https://osiris.valthost.com/viewtopic.p ... 0012212/1/

Zaolat · Post by **Zaolat** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:10 pm

Amerion wrote:Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:37 amI do not agree with this motion at all.

As as former Pharoah of the OFO, Tim has served this region and her people with distinction. His record is unimpeachable and I am most distressed to learn of this proposal.

If the loyalties of nations to other regions are to play a part in an evaluation of their character and worthiness to hold office then I can think of a number of nations present in this Council and in government who would themselves be deemed ineligible to hold office. The times when a nation should hold office in one region alone has long passed us. We are now in an era of multi-regionalism and this proposal flies directly in the face of it.

The Pharoah himself, once ran for election in Lazarus not too long ago. Would he himself be considered unfit for office due to the relations between the two GCRs? I find that premise outdated and unjust.

I urge my fellow members to consider the history of Tim Stark. A person whose record far surpasses our own. Osiris owes him a debt of gratitude, just as it does Cormac and Koth.

Tim doesn't care. He could have at least complained about the operation and asked TGW to right their wrong. I'm not saying he should try to force them, but if he gave any fucks about Osiris he would have opened his mouth and voiced criticism of what TGW had done. The only thing that bothered him at all was the Jesus Whale reference, the rest he gave no fucks.

Had he at least done that, I would have not approved of this. Since that isn't the case, I approve of this. Hell I'd go as far as PNGing any and all TGW members from Osiris permanently until TGW rights it's wrong.

There is no room for enemies of Osiris here. TGW and it's membership are enemies of our region and now me personally beyond R/D.

I will give no quarter, and urge Osiris to completely follow suit until the wrong is corrected properly.

Cormac · Post by **Cormac** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:49 pm

It should be noted that this was posted to the Grey Wardens forum before Osiris declared a raider alignment in July. Nonetheless, Tim did not mention, when involved in the discussion on whether to adopt a raider alignment, that he would therefore find it "necessary and proper to enter it and burn the hive to the ground" or that he believes "in the destruction of invader regions via any legal in-game method including invading them." He did not mention that being a Grey Warden would involve invading Osiris "when [their] opportunity strikes."

It would be irresponsible to leave Tim Stark on the Council of Priests. I would not have re-appointed him had I seen this post first.