Osiris Fraternal Order

I've never been one for not having fun, so I'm going to have fun with this although it's a very serious nomination.

I hereby nominate Tim Stark for Pschent. Given the ongoing elections, I believe that as long as we time the vote with the closure of the Pharaoh vote, all can be in order here.

I am willing to answer any questions about myself that people may have.

Full support. I heard Tim is a pretty cool fellow.

[class=members]Festavo[/class] takes off glasses, puts them on his desk and interlocks his fingers

Pharaoh Stark, why do you feel you are the best man for the job at this time?

Your Majesty, you sign off on the pardons of two criminals, and then you have the audacity to suggest that you respect the sovereignty of the Pschent?

Vienna wrote:Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:36 amYour Majesty, you sign off on the pardons of two criminals, and then you have the audacity to suggest that you respect the sovereignty of the Pschent?

I hope this was not serious.

It's unusual to nominate yourself for the Pschent, Tim, but if you were nominated by the next Pharaoh I would very likely vote to confirm you, so I will probably vote to confirm you now as well.

Festavo wrote:Pharaoh Stark, why do you feel you are the best man for the job at this time?

I'm actually willing to be on the Pschent, which is very rare these days, so I feel that's one of my biggest perks. I've also got enough legal experience to deal with any trials that may rise up.

Vienna wrote:Your Majesty, you sign off on the pardons of two criminals, and then you have the audacity to suggest that you respect the sovereignty of the Pschent?

I'm unsure how the usage of an expressed power of the Deshret that is within the state code is usurping any sovereignty.

Cormac wrote:It's unusual to nominate yourself for the Pschent, Tim

That's why I did it!

You came to the conclusion that the Pschent was wrong and that criminals — who plead guilty — were wrongly convicted and sentenced. This power is meant to be used to stop abuses of justice, not act as a medium for that abuse.

I might agree with you if the Deshret hadn't voted on the pardon. Tim did not act alone.

Vienna wrote:Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:53 amYou came to the conclusion that the Pschent was wrong and that criminals — who plead guilty — were wrongly convicted and sentenced. This power is meant to be used to stop abuses of justice, not act as a medium for that abuse.

Use of a constitutional power isn't "abuse," and your interpretation of when and how that constitutional power should be used isn't necessarily the correct interpretation.

As the person who actually wrote the State Code, I can tell you that your interpretation of the pardon power does not match the intent behind it. I wrote a pardon power for the Pharaoh, with Deshret approval, not only so that miscarriages of justice could be corrected, but so that the community could decide -- together, with the leadership of the Pharaoh -- to grant clemency and second chances if that's what the community felt was the right thing to do. It wasn't just meant to be a check on judicial abuse; it was meant to be a check on judicial power in general, like the executive veto of legislation, or like legislative confirmation of executive officials. It's part of this region's system of checks and balances, and there need to be checks and balances for the judiciary just like for any other branch of government. It isn't just about abuse of power, and no one has claimed the Pschent decided any cases wrongly or abused its power.

I'm going to suggest that maybe you should be here for a minute and try learning something about the region and its community before you make big pronouncements about what our laws mean and are supposed to do.

Cormac wrote:Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:26 amUse of a constitutional power isn't "abuse," and your interpretation of when and how that constitutional power should be used isn't necessarily the correct interpretation.

As the person who actually wrote the State Code, I can tell you that your interpretation of the pardon power does not match the intent behind it. I wrote a pardon power for the Pharaoh, with Deshret approval, not only so that miscarriages of justice could be corrected, but so that the community could decide -- together, with the leadership of the Pharaoh -- to grant clemency and second chances if that's what the community felt was the right thing to do. It wasn't just meant to be a check on judicial abuse; it was meant to be a check on judicial power in general, like the executive veto of legislation, or like legislative confirmation of executive officials. It's part of this region's system of checks and balances, and there need to be checks and balances for the judiciary just like for any other branch of government. It isn't just about abuse of power, and no one has claimed the Pschent decided any cases wrongly or abused its power.

I'm going to suggest that maybe you should be here for a minute and try learning something about the region and its community before you make big pronouncements about what our laws mean and are supposed to do.

Any legal scholar worth half their ass knows intentionality does not, has not, nor will ever matter when it comes to legal interpretation. Is the spirit of the law a nice thing to think about? Yes, but there's a reason legislative purpose and intent isn't statutory and is rarely even glanced at by courts of law. So drop the 'muh legislation' approach and stop pretending your name lends you an intrinsic credibility.

Why don't you remind yourself of the circumstances — first, Tim Stark coerced the Deshret into acceptance of terms with which members would find themselves in disagreement with by executively voiding parliamentary law and forbidding division of the question. Then, by a two vote margin — less than 1% of all casting a ballot — a traitor to the entire community was allowed to scratch at its eyes again in the grounds that "he didn't really mean it."

Who else is going to get a second chance if this nomination goes through? How much treason and forum destruction needs to occur before we stop doing what the excruciatingly small excuse for representation of the community feels is "the right thing to do" to save their buddies and start convicting people who are doing real and substantial harm to the citizens of this region who aren't going to be given cabinet positions after a coup?

Checks and balances will exist when there is a legitimately independent judiciary and real separation of powers, not when the good old boys' club dominates every office this region has to offer.

I'm going to counter your suggestion and advise you be involved in gameplay longer than I've been, then I want you to formally work in law, and then I want you to know what you're talking about before you spew bullshit about your God-forsaken intentions.