[PROP] Oh The Times They Are A Changin'

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Tim Stark
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[PROP] Oh The Times They Are A Changin'

Post by Tim Stark »

Greetings Deshret,

For the past few days the region has been enjoying a period of nominations, healthy banter, and casual pokes from yours truly to keep doing stuff. Attitudes have been joyful, NES has been agreeing with my opinions, and people have even been roleplaying. So, obviously, this is a perfect time to present to you with an incredibly comprehensive list of Pardons and Removals of PNG that I would like the Deshret to approve so that I may order them done and foster further feelings of camaraderie and fraternity within our great region. Sounds controversial, you say? Yes, it is, but I believe that these actions are some that are necessary for Osiris to continue progressing as a region and as a community. Therefore, I hereby propose the following to the Deshret for approval:
  • Removal of Persona Non Grata status for George Holland
  • Removal of Persona Non Grata status for Biyah
  • Removal of Persona Non Grata status for Dalimbar
  • Removal of Persona Non Grata status for Neenee
  • Removal of Persona Non Grata status for Neo Kervoskia
  • Full Pardon for Ridersyl
  • Full Pardon for Cormac Stark
I'll now outline why each individual, or set of individuals, should have their Persona Non Grata status rescinded or their status pardoned.

First, George Holland. I really don't see how we can justify the Persona Non Grata status here, especially given how much he did for our community both as Pharaoh, as Sobek of the Medjai Guard, and as an invaluable member of this community. To declare him for a lengthy persona non grata status for something in the same exact kind as that of the Dourian Embassy, only far less destructive, and welcome him back while rejecting George Holland seems hypocritical. His Delete-on-Site status should play no factor with this, and even if it did, I see no reason why such a historically positive member of the community should have to suffer at the hand of a knee-jerk ban.

Next, I'll address the foursome of Biyah, Dalimbar, Neenee, and Neo Kervoskia as one unit. First of all, not only do you have them at least partially to thank for the fact that we actually hold the region today, given their efforts in the 2013 Summer of Gatesville's Coup, but it seems to me that this PNG comes down to nothing more than the typical paranoia that is associated with capable players who know how to play the game. The "Empire" as the group is known, seems to have some sort of bogeyman vibe to it, and such paranoia does nothing besides continuing years-long resentment without any purpose behind it. All contributed significantly to Osiris, and all should be once again given the opportunity to serve in the region if they wish. If anybody wishes to imply that they'd re-appear and instantly subvert Osiris back to some sort of twisted agenda, then feel free to do so. You're wrong, and such a statement treats Osiris as if its some lumbering oaf of a region rather than the fully capable and influential Game-Created Region that we are.

Moving on, I ask for approval of a full pardon of Ridersyl. Convicted for Forum Destruction, he has evidently shown incredible amounts of remorse and maturity in regards to the situation, becoming a well-respected individual and putting his past behind him. While he is eligible for parole in February, I don't think that's enough, and I honestly don't think that he should be forced to be subject to that. We know he's not going to be an issue, we know he's a dedicated player with a good heart, and turning a new leaf is always a good prospect to take.

Finally, I ask for approval of a full pardon of Cormac Stark. While treason he did commit, I fully believe that it is rather pointless for him to serve out a full sentence for what was more of a statement than any real intention to commit crime. Similar to the Empire's actual December 2012 coup, Cormac used the opportunity to outline flaws within the Osiris Fraternal Order's model at the time. Over my first two terms, I very much worked to apply the sentiments expressed within Cormac's plea to ensure that his statement of the Osiris Fraternal Order's failure would not ring true. I think, if we look over the past year, we can see the significant improvement that Osiris has underwent, and I for one am thankful for Cormac's speech for making a statement to many Osirans who needed to hear it.

Now comes the even more fun part, as you all already likely begin planning which to conspire to pass of these and which to conspire to fail. I am proposing this as an all or nothing proposal. There will be no vote on each individual PNG Removal and Pardon, they are all together a package deal. You will either choose to pass all of the removals and pardons, or you will choose to pass none. There is no compromise from my end on this. The goal of this is not only to remove many bans that I consider senseless, along with others that I think have served their purpose, but to continue demonstrating to the greater NS world that Osiris continues to turn a new leaf and allows for formerly ostracized members to turn their own new leaf. To pass only some, with the typical conspiring that ensues with that, would only reinforce that petty squabbles and personal motivations are what drive everyone here, and my goal is to continue ensuring that matters like those are not present within our great region. As lofty as it is, I still aspire for us to be the GCR that sets the example for the others, and conspiracy and plotting have no place here.

So, there's your choice Deshret. All of them, or none of them.

Tim Stark Objectively Osiris' 2nd Best Pharaoh
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Tim Stark
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[PROP] Oh The Times They Are A Changin'

Post by Tim Stark »

Furthermore, as a gesture evidencing my own commitment to Osiris demonstrating this departure from petty squabbles and personal motivations, there's another Forum Destruction PNG on the books. 94 Block and I have had our differences, and it's fair to say I'm likely still bitter at him for his destruction of the Grand Central Forums. However, much like Ridersyl, he has shown remorse for the situation, has clearly recognized his wrongs, and has matured since then. Furthermore, he is now working to rebuild Grand Central, an indication that others of the native community have forgiven him too. Given that of the Grand Central natives I'm likely the last holdout, I'll cede to their majority opinion on this and recognize 94 Block's demonstration of maturity and humility.

Therefore, I hereby remove the Persona Non Grata status placed upon 94 Block during my first term.
Tim Stark Objectively Osiris' 2nd Best Pharaoh
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Lord Ravenclaw
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[PROP] Oh The Times They Are A Changin'

Post by Lord Ravenclaw »

Sorry, I'm not biting. Maybe some of the above, but not all of them. That would sink Osiran diplomatic credibility like a rock. I'd love to know how half of our allies would feel, and I can already predict the responses.

The law is the law insofar as the pardons are concerned. Both of them are due to expire fairly soon anyway, so a pardon now is meaningless. The symbolic nature of these convictions needs to stand if Osiris is going to be able to hold its head high and say our courts, and our laws treat people fairly. This would be catastrophic for us, when waiting for a few more months to end naturally and they can then be put behind Osiris is far superior than "pardoning" the two people in question and deciding to forget what they've done.

And in Ridersyl's case: good for him. That doesn't change what he done or what it took to get him to admit involvement. Being "widely" respected doesn't change what he did, and I'd also question the definition of "widely" used.

To finish: The only people on that list who I think we could successfully allow back in are Cormac and although (let back in is symbolic), George Holland without considerable diplomatic and political backlash.
Joshua Ravenclaw
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"The Pharaoh-Emeritus of the Imperial Crown" - The Tenth Pharaoh of Osiris
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Former Spokespriest and Priest of the Council of Ma'at, Deputy Grand Hedjeti and Priest of the Hedjet and Guardian of the Atef
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[PROP] Oh The Times They Are A Changin'

Post by Victor Siege »

Does Cormac even want to be pardoned?
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Lord Ravenclaw
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[PROP] Oh The Times They Are A Changin'

Post by Lord Ravenclaw »

Cormac has expressed an interest in this, yes.
Joshua Ravenclaw
5th April 2012 -
"The Pharaoh-Emeritus of the Imperial Crown" - The Tenth Pharaoh of Osiris
Former Pharaoh of Osiris, First elected Pharaoh of the Osiris Fraternal Order, Former Advisor to the Pharaoh of Osiris
Former Spokespriest and Priest of the Council of Ma'at, Deputy Grand Hedjeti and Priest of the Hedjet and Guardian of the Atef
Former Vice Delegate, Justice and Chief Justice, Former Sepatarch, Co-Spokesperson of the Sepatarchy
Former Vizier of Foreign Affairs, Scribe of Foreign Affairs, Deputy of Foreign Affairs and Director of the Diplomatic Service
Former Global Moderator and Administrator
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Koth
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[PROP] Oh The Times They Are A Changin'

Post by Koth »

man i really did waste my fucking time in 2013 didnt i

if it's all or none, i'm going with none every day of the week. Syl and C will be back soon and I have infinitely low desire to see the entire founding of the OFO go undone. I'll talk more about this when i'm not rushing out the door

His Majesty Ambroscus Koth Vytherov, Hasal-Pharaoh, Bru'uh of Osiris
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[PROP] Oh The Times They Are A Changin'

Post by Koth »

Sorry for the double post, but I'm slowly writing this while I'm at work.

The story of this regime's founding is pretty common around these parts. Yes, the banjection of the Empire was largely romanticized. But it was symbolic of what we were hoping the OFO would achieve: throwing off the shackles of oppression and standing together for a new era. The PNG of Biyah, Dalimbar, Minineenee and Neo Kervoskia are not in place for practicality: they are the representation of what we stood for. If we can't stick to that, we can't stick to fucking anything, and our allies will see that.

To be quite honest, I never want to see them in this region ever again, no matter how much time has passed. The story of The Empire of The East Pacific seems lame now that Dali and Neenee hang out there totally normally, don't you think? Maybe that group of players has changed and isn't only about grabbing up any power they can get in the GCRs anymore. I don't care. Just give me a fucking reason to think that failing classes and falling into depression in an effort to purge those 4 from Osiris wasn't a gigantic waste of my fucking time. I'd be a complete hypocrite to support this proposal, and I'd rather look a fool than an inconsistent politician.

Get the picture yet? Those players have a whole world they can freely explore, keep them away from the one place they aren't welcome. Who they are now doesn't matter. You remove their PNG and you remove this region's entire identity. Case closed.

His Majesty Ambroscus Koth Vytherov, Hasal-Pharaoh, Bru'uh of Osiris
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[PROP] Oh The Times They Are A Changin'

Post by Lord Ravenclaw »

I'd like to say as well - that Pharaoh cannot dictate to the Deshret how and when it votes on anything. I would recommend to the Keeper the following:

1. This motion is separated into options, with each aye, nay, abstain available or that each person is given a separate vote. (The Pharaoh cannot say this is an all or nothing proposal. It doesn't work that way.)

2. This is moved to the Deshret conference room.

3. As a brief reminder, the Pharaoh is a non-voting member of the Deshret and may vote in elections (Section 3.1a), so their votes on this will be symbolic. The Deshret is also able to act as it sees fit, given that the Pharaoh is accountable to it, and not the other way around.
Joshua Ravenclaw
5th April 2012 -
"The Pharaoh-Emeritus of the Imperial Crown" - The Tenth Pharaoh of Osiris
Former Pharaoh of Osiris, First elected Pharaoh of the Osiris Fraternal Order, Former Advisor to the Pharaoh of Osiris
Former Spokespriest and Priest of the Council of Ma'at, Deputy Grand Hedjeti and Priest of the Hedjet and Guardian of the Atef
Former Vice Delegate, Justice and Chief Justice, Former Sepatarch, Co-Spokesperson of the Sepatarchy
Former Vizier of Foreign Affairs, Scribe of Foreign Affairs, Deputy of Foreign Affairs and Director of the Diplomatic Service
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Andrew
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[PROP] Oh The Times They Are A Changin'

Post by Andrew »

I agree with Raven and Koth. No point in a pardon at this time. And the reaction towards this? I'm no diplomat, but i'm sure anyone can guess that people will get perturbed at this. I may not know the members of Empire on a personal level but I do know this, once you throw the guys that caused trouble out - you don't later let them back in due to 'changing times'. It's not wise to take unneccessary risk towards regional stability for such a reason.


Don't mind Cormac coming back, I guess, and maybe Ridersyl and George, but the rest? No Dice.
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[PROP] Oh The Times They Are A Changin'

Post by Andrew »

Lord Ravenclaw wrote:Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:55 pmI'd like to say as well - that Pharaoh cannot dictate to the Deshret how and when it votes on anything. I would recommend to the Keeper the following:

1. This motion is separated into options, with each aye, nay, abstain available or that each person is given a separate vote. (The Pharaoh cannot say this is an all or nothing proposal. It doesn't work that way.)

2. This is moved to the Deshret conference room.

3. As a brief reminder, the Pharaoh is a non-voting member of the Deshret and may vote in elections (Section 3.1a), so their votes on this will be symbolic. The Deshret is also able to act as it sees fit, given that the Pharaoh is accountable to it, and not the other way around.
Moved to the Conference Room.
Andrew Grey-Anumia
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  • Former x2 term Minister of HA (TNP)
  • Incumbent Deputy Min. of HA (TNP)
  • Incumbent Court Justice (TNP)
  • NPA Corporal (TNP)
  • HA Mentoring Director (TNP)
  • x3 Keeper of the Osiran Deshret (Osiris)
  • x2 Scribe of Media (Osiris)
  • Sekhmet Legion Corporal (Osiris)
  • x3 Former Curator of the Deshret (Osiris)
  • Councilor of the Deshret
  • Former Deputy Director of the Assembly (Lazarus)
  • Former Minister of War (Balder)
  • Former Minister of Integration and Civic Service (Balder)
  • Jomskivikings (Balder)
  • x1 member of the Storting (Balder)
  • x2 Member of the Senat (La France)
  • x1 Prime Minister of La France
  • x2 Member of Parliament (CoDN)
  • Election Commissioner (TNP)
  • x1 Minister of Foreign Affairs (CoDN)
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