Osiris Fraternal Order

Posted: **Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:51 pm**

I brought this idea up in Deshret Conference Room, and with r3n's resignation from the Pschent as well as discussions over the Scribe of Justice and how we should ensure the independence of that role, I've decided to bring this forward as it offers a very simplified way to deal with regional justice, among other things.

There are two versions of this draft and the two different versions will be explained below.

Spoiler

Constitution of the Osiris Fraternal Order
Preamble

We, the people of Osiris, in order to establish democratic governance and to foster peace, security, and stability within the region and its community, hereby reaffirm the Osiris Fraternal Order as the constitutional government of Osiris, governed by the provisions of this Constitution of the Osiris Fraternal Order.

Section 1: Deshret of Osiris

1. The Deshet of Osiris will be responsible for the democratic governance of the region, its community, and regional interaction with the broader NationStates world.

2. The Deshret will be comprised of all citizens of the Osiris Fraternal Order. Citizens will automatically be enrolled in the Deshret upon admission to citizenship.

3. The Deshret will be presided over by its presiding officer, the Keeper, who will preside over the Deshret according to its procedural rules.

4. The Deshret will have the power to make any law that it determines is necessary and proper for the general welfare of the people of Osiris and the community of the Osiris Fraternal Order, and to repeal such law.

5. The Deshret will have the power to enact treaties and other formal diplomatic agreements with other NationStates regions and organizations, and to repeal such treaties and agreements. Such treaties and agreements that include a commitment to military activity must be enacted by two-thirds majority vote.

6. The Deshret will have the power to declare war against other NationStates regions and organizations, and to repeal such declarations, by two-thirds majority vote.

7. The Deshret will have the power to elect officers of the Hedjet and Deshret, to confirm or reject the appointment of officers of the Atef, and to remove elected or appointed officials from office.

8. The result of any vote of the Deshret will be determined by taking into account only citizens voting, and discounting any abstentions cast in the vote. Unless otherwise mandated by this Constitution, the result of all votes of the Deshret will be determined by simple majority vote.

Section 2: Hedjet of Osiris

1. The Hedjet of Osiris will be responsible for the ordinary executive governance of the region, its community, and regional interaction with the broader NationStates world, on behalf of the Deshret.

2. The Hedjet will be comprised of the following officers, who will be responsible for the following duties:

(a) The Pharaoh will serve as Delegate of Osiris and will be responsible for overseeing and administering the game-side region, diplomatic interaction with other NationStates regions and organizations, and representing Osiris in the World Assembly.

(b) The Vizier will serve as Vice Delegate of Osiris, holding the second highest endorsement count in the region, and will be responsible for overseeing regional security as chairperson of the Atef. The Vizier will have a vote on the Atef for the duration of their service as Vizier but will not be an officer of the Atef unless otherwise appointed to the Atef.

(c) The Chief Scribe will serve as Prime Minister of the Osiris Fraternal Order and will be responsible for facilitating regional community affairs, including integration, culture, and media.

(d) The Marshal General will serve as Commander-in-Chief of the military forces of the Osiris Fraternal Order, responsible for policy and command of such forces, and for executing the military obligations of all treaties, formal diplomatic agreements, and declarations of war.

3. The duties assigned to officers of the Hedjet do not grant officers absolute power over their respective areas of government, and are subject to additional regulation by law.

4. Officers of the Hedjet may appoint deputies to assist in the execution of their assigned duties. Such deputies will not be subject to election or confirmation by the Deshret, but may be recalled by the Deshret.

Section 3: Atef of Osiris

1. The Atef of Osiris will be responsible for overseeing and assisting in enforcing regional security, for enforcing removal of the Pharaoh from office by the Deshret, and for enforcing removal of the Vizier from office by the Deshret if the Pharaoh is unable or unwilling to do so.

2. The Atef will be comprised of the Vizier as its chairperson and officers appointed by the Pharaoh. Once confirmed in their appointment by the Deshret, officers of the Atef may only be removed from office by the Deshret and are not subject to term limit.

3. The Pharaoh, if previously appointed to the Atef, will be suspended from the Atef for the duration of their service as Pharaoh.

4. Officers of the Atef will be responsible for maintaining high endorsement counts, up to 66% of the Pharaoh's endorsement count or ten endorsements fewer than the Vizier, whichever is lower. This limit may be waived as mandated by law.

5. The Atef will be responsible for accepting or rejecting citizenship applications by simple majority vote. If an application is neither accepted nor rejected within seven days of its filing, it will go to vote before the Deshret.

6. The Atef will have the power to remove citizenship by unanimous vote. Neither the Vizier nor any officer of the Atef will vote on removal of their own citizenship. Removal of citizenship for failure to maintain a nation in the region will be regulated by law.

7. Any citizen may appeal acceptance of a citizenship application to the Deshret. The Deshret will, within seven days of the appeal, initiate a vote to uphold or overturn acceptance of the citizenship application. Admission to citizenship will be suspended until the Deshret vote concludes.

8. Any individual whose citizenship application is rejected or whose citizenship is removed may appeal such rejection or removal to the Deshret. The Deshret will, within seven days of the appeal, initiate a vote to uphold or overturn the rejection or removal. Rejection or removal of citizenship will be suspended until the Deshret vote concludes.

Section 4: Other Provisions

1. The legal off-site forum of the Osiris Fraternal Order, the sole legitimate off-site forum of Osiris, is found at this URL: https://osiris.valthost.com/index.php

2. No provision of this Constitution nor any law made pursuant to this Constitution will be construed to limit or interfere with the power of forum administration to safeguard the out-of-character security of the off-site forum or its community.

3. The Deshret will have the power to amend this Constitution by three-quarters majority vote.

Section 5: Status of Previous Law

1. The State Code of Osiris is hereby repealed.

2. The Procedure of the Deshret is hereby repealed.

3. All statutory law enacted under the State Code of Osiris is hereby repealed.

4. Any treaty law enacted under the State Code of Osiris that is not again enacted by the Deshret within ninety days of the enactment of this Constitution will be automatically repealed, but will bear the force of law unless and until repealed.

5. All officials elected or appointed under the State Code of Osiris will continue to serve in their respective offices until election procedures are established by law and elections accordingly conducted.

Spoiler

Constitution of the Osiris Fraternal Order
Preamble

We, the people of Osiris, in order to establish democratic governance and to foster peace, security, and stability within the region and its community, hereby reaffirm the Osiris Fraternal Order as the constitutional government of Osiris, governed by the provisions of this Constitution of the Osiris Fraternal Order.

Section 1: Deshret Assembly of Osiris

1. The Deshret Assembly of Osiris will be responsible for the democratic governance of the region, its community, and regional interaction with the broader NationStates world.

2. The Deshret Assembly will be comprised of all citizens of the Osiris Fraternal Order. Citizens will automatically be enrolled in the Deshret Assembly upon admission to citizenship.

3. The Deshret Assembly will be presided over by its presiding officer, the Keeper, who will be elected from among the citizenry of the Osiris Fraternal Order for terms of three months and will preside over the Assembly according to its procedural rules.

4. The Deshret Assembly will have the power to make any law that it determines is necessary and proper for the general welfare of the people of Osiris and the community of the Osiris Fraternal Order, and to repeal such law.

5. The Deshret Assembly will have the power to enact treaties and other formal diplomatic agreements with other NationStates regions and organizations, and to repeal such treaties and agreements. Such treaties and agreements that include a commitment to military deployment must be enacted by two-thirds majority vote.

6. The Deshret Assembly will have the power to declare war against other NationStates regions and organizations, and to repeal such declarations, by two-thirds majority vote.

7. The Deshret Assembly will have the power to elect officers of the Executive Hedjet and Deshret Assembly, to confirm or reject the appointment of officers of the Atef Guardian Council, and to remove elected or appointed officials from office.

8. The Pharaoh will have the power to sign or veto legislation passed by the Deshret Assembly. If legislation is signed, it will be enacted into law; if vetoed, it will be returned to the Deshret Assembly for reconsideration. The Deshret Assembly will have the power to override such a veto by two-thirds majority vote. If the Pharaoh neither signs nor vetoes legislation within seven days of its passage, it will automatically become law.

9. The result of any vote of the Deshret Assembly will be determined by taking into account only citizens voting, and discounting any abstentions cast in the vote. Unless otherwise mandated by this Constitution, the result of all votes of the Deshret Assembly will be determined by simple majority vote.

Section 2: Executive Hedjet of Osiris

1. The Executive Hedjet of Osiris will be responsible for the ordinary executive governance of the region, its community, and regional interaction with the broader NationStates world, on behalf of the Deshret Assembly.

2. The Executive Hedjet will be comprised of the following officers, elected from among the citizenry of the Osiris Fraternal Order for terms of three months, who will be responsible for the following duties:

(a) The Pharaoh will serve as Delegate of Osiris and will be responsible for overseeing and administering the game-side region; diplomatic interaction with other NationStates regions and organizations; representing Osiris in the World Assembly; policy and command of the military forces of the Osiris Fraternal Order, including executing the military obligations of all treaties, formal diplomatic agreements, and declarations of war; and facilitating regional community affairs, such as integration, culture, and media.

(b) The Vizier will serve as Vice Delegate of Osiris, holding the second highest endorsement count in the region, and will be responsible for overseeing regional security as chairperson of the Atef Guardian Council. The Vizier will have a vote on the Atef Guardian Council for the duration of their service as Vizier but will not be an officer of the Atef Guardian Council unless otherwise appointed to the Atef Guardian Council.

3. The duties assigned to officers of the Executive Hedjet do not grant officers absolute power over their respective areas of government, and are subject to additional regulation by law.

4. Officers of the Executive Hedjet may appoint citizens to serve as deputies, to assist in the execution of their assigned duties. Such deputies will not be subject to election or confirmation by the Deshret Assembly, but may be recalled by the Deshret Assembly.

Section 3: Atef Guardian Council of Osiris

1. The Atef Guardian Council of Osiris will be responsible for overseeing and assisting in enforcing regional security, for enforcing removal of the Pharaoh from office by the Deshret Assembly, and for enforcing removal of the Vizier from office by the Deshret Assembly if the Pharaoh is unable or unwilling to do so.

2. The Atef Guardian Council will be comprised of the Vizier as its chairperson and officers appointed from among the citizenry of the Osiris Fraternal Order by the Pharaoh. Once confirmed in their appointment by the Deshret Assembly, officers of the Atef Guardian Council may only be removed from office by the Deshret Assembly and are not subject to term limit.

3. The Pharaoh, if previously appointed to the Atef Guardian Council, will be suspended from the Atef Guardian Council for the duration of their service as Pharaoh.

4. Officers of the Atef Guardian Council will be responsible for maintaining high endorsement counts, up to 66% of the Pharaoh's endorsement count or ten endorsements fewer than the Vizier, whichever is lower. This limit may be waived as mandated by law.

5. The Atef Guardian Council will, in consultation with forum administration, be responsible for accepting or rejecting citizenship applications by simple majority vote. If an application is neither accepted nor rejected within seven days of its filing, it will go to vote before the Deshret Assembly.

6. The Atef Guardian Council will have the power to remove citizenship by three-quarters majority vote. Neither the Vizier nor any officer of the Atef Guardian Council will vote on removal of their own citizenship. Removal of citizenship for failure to maintain a nation in the region will be regulated by law.

7. The result of any citizenship vote of the Atef Guardian Council will be determined by taking into account only members voting over a maximum seven day period.

8. Citizens admitted to citizenship within seven days prior to a scheduled election, or after the initiation of a special election, will not be permitted to vote in that election.

9. Any citizen may appeal acceptance of a citizenship application to the Deshret Assembly within seven days of its acceptance. The Deshret Assembly will, within seven days of the appeal, initiate a vote to uphold or overturn acceptance of the citizenship application. Admission to citizenship will be suspended until the Deshret Assembly vote concludes.

10. Any individual whose citizenship application is rejected or whose citizenship is removed may appeal such rejection or removal to the Deshret Assembly within seven days of the rejection or removal. The Deshret Assembly will, within seven days of the appeal, initiate a vote to uphold or overturn the rejection or removal. Rejection or removal of citizenship will be suspended until the Deshret Assembly vote concludes.

Section 4: Other Provisions

1. The legal off-site forum of the Osiris Fraternal Order, the sole legitimate off-site forum of Osiris, is found at this URL: https://osiris.valthost.com/index.php

2. No provision of this Constitution nor any law made pursuant to this Constitution will be construed to limit or interfere with the power of forum administration to safeguard the out-of-character security of the off-site forum or its community.

3. The Deshret Assembly will have the power to amend this Constitution by three-quarters majority vote. Such amendments will not be subject to signature or veto by the Pharaoh.

Section 5: Status of Previous Law

1. The State Code of Osiris is hereby repealed.

2. The Procedure of the Deshret is hereby repealed.

3. All statutory law enacted under the State Code of Osiris is hereby repealed.

4. Any treaty law enacted under the State Code of Osiris will be retained under this Constitution.

5. All officials elected or appointed under the State Code of Osiris will continue to serve in their respective offices until election procedures are established by law and elections accordingly conducted.

Version 1

Version 1 is the more significantly different of the two proposals, making the following changes:

Legislature

The Deshret would now be comprised of all citizens of the Osiris Fraternal Order, from the minute they are admitted to citizenship, with no activity or quorum requirements. Citizens would participate in the Deshret as they're willing and able. This would increase Deshret activity and reduce administrative workload for the Keeper, allowing him more time to work on legislation, move legislation forward, and generally oversee the Deshret.
Laws made by the Deshret would no longer be subject to executive veto.
There would now be a two-thirds majority required for treaties and declarations of war.
The Deshret would now have the power to remove officials from office by simple majority vote.
The Deshret would no longer have the power to confirm executive deputies (i.e., Scribes).

Executive

The executive would now be divided into four elected offices: Pharaoh, Vizier, Chief Scribe, Marshal General. These officers would not be collectively responsible for executive policy, as in TSP, but rather would be autonomous over their respective areas, subject to laws made by the Deshret.
The Pharaoh would be responsible for administration of the game-side region, diplomacy, and WA affairs.
The Vizier would be responsible for regional security and chairing the Atef.
The Chief Scribe would be responsible for community affairs -- integration, culture, and media.
The Marshal General would be responsible for policy and command of the Legion.
Each officer could appoint deputies (i.e., Scribes) without Deshret confirmation.

Security

The Atef would still have the same game-side security responsibilities they have now, including the exact same endo cap (66% of the Pharaoh's count or ten less than the Vizier).
The Atef would continue to be appointed by the Pharaoh and confirmed by the Deshret but would now be chaired by the Vizier, now an elected official.
The Atef would be responsible for accepting or rejecting citizenship applications by majority vote. Any citizen could appeal acceptance of a citizenship app, any individual rejected could appeal the rejection, with appeals going to a majority vote in the Deshret.
The Atef would also be responsible for removing citizenship by unanimous vote. This doesn't include removal of citizenship for failure to maintain a nation in the region, which will be covered by law. Any individual whose citizenship is removed could appeal removal to the Deshret. This would replace our current complicated, under-used, and under-performing justice system.
If acceptance of citizenship is appealed, the acceptance is suspended until the Deshret vote concludes. If rejected or removed and then appealed, the rejection or removal is suspended until the Deshret vote concludes.
A member of the Atef could not vote on removal of their own citizenship.

Other Provisions

The legal establishment of the forum and protection of the power of forum administration to protect its OOC security is preserved
A three-quarters majority vote would now be needed to amend the Constitution.
The State Code is, obviously, repealed.
The Procedure of the Deshret, the bulk of which is incompatible with this simplified Constitution, is repealed.
All prior legislation, most of which is also incompatible with this simplification and won't need to be replaced, is repealed.
All treaties will be subjected to a re-vote within ninety days due to the expanded membership of the Deshret as well as the new, higher threshold of two-thirds for ratification of treaties. Any treaty that isn't re-ratified within ninety days is repealed.
Officials from the State Code will remain in office until an election procedure is established and elections conclude.

Version 2

Legislature

Laws passed by the Deshret would still be subject to Pharaonic veto.
All other provisions here are the same as Version 1.

Executive

This is less significantly reformed than in Version 1. The Pharaoh maintains most executive responsibilities, but the Vizier becomes a second elected executive office to oversee regional security and chair the Atef.
All other provisions are the same as Version 1.

Security

Citizenship can be removed by 3/4 rather than unanimous vote.
All other provisions here are the same as Version 1.

Other Provisions

All provisions here are the same as Version 1.

Posted: **Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:56 pm**

I'll read through it later tonight, but I do not like the idea of an elected cabinet.

I'll expand my answer in detail tonight

Posted: **Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:00 pm**

Ainocra wrote:Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:56 pmI'll read through it later tonight, but I do not like the idea of an elected cabinet.

I'll expand my answer in detail tonight

Aye, the second version eliminates the elected cabinet, because some expressed opposition to that idea in Deshret Conference Room but were open to the Deshret and Atef changes, and elimination of the Pschent.

A foreign observer has also noted that our titles can be confusing for people outside Osiris, and are probably also confusing for new/returning players we're trying to get to the forum. What are our thoughts on retaining the widely understood titles of Pharaoh and Vizier, but using "Chief Minister" instead of Chief Scribe, Cabinet instead of Hedjet, Assembly instead of Deshret, etc.?

We could still have plenty of our theme with cultural pursuits, and this would allow more theme flexibility by not making it legally established as well.

Posted: **Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:47 pm**

I will focus on the second version as I think it's something that I could work with. Here are some proposed changes to that draft.

I like The idea of an open Deshret, as Keeper this would make my life a lot easier, and make the lives of Keepers that follow me much easier as well.
It would make determining order of precedence far simpler, but would also serve to concentrate that order in the older accounts which might note necessarily be a good thing as it could serve to discourage new blood. The procedure of the Deshret would have to take this into account somehow. Curator appointments I suppose, perhaps committees.

I support abolition of the courts. They don't get a lot of work nowadays anyway and the expanded Deshret could handle the few cases that come up faster and better. but we would have to come up with a procedure for handling criminal cases to avoid subjecting accused criminal to a majority vote, it's very easy to imagine someone being punished for something they didn't actually do just because they are unpopular.

The election of some officials should be enshrined into the state code, the Pharaoh and the Vizier definitely. The Keeper can probably be dealt with by the procedure of the Deshret but it might be a good idea to put them in there too. I like the idea of an elected Vizier but would prefer to see it tweaked, to have the Pharaoh and the Vizier act as running mates during the election in order to prevent friction after. Elected and voted on separately but running as a team. For example let us suppose I were nominated for Pharaoh, I would then have to name a running mate. For this example let's go with Wambot, because who doesn't want to ride a marsupial into battle? Assuming he accepted we'd then run as a team. I think that would make the elections more dynamic while avoiding the possibility of a clash of personalities after the election.

I don't like voting for the Hedjet, I say let the Pharaoh choose their team and work by simple appointment. No confirmation process in the Deshret, but subject to majority vote recall.
That way they can get working right away without a lengthy confirmation process such as we currently have.

I don't like the idea of No Veto. I feel the Pharaoh should still have a veto power over laws and treaties made by the Deshret subject to some type of over ride vote though I am not dead set on what percentage would need to bypass such.

I do not like the idea of Repealing all our existing treaties, I feel this sends the wrong message to our friends and allies. I say leave them in force as is. Perhaps review them to ensure that none of what is set forth needs tweaking after this massive overhaul and deal with them on a case by case basis. (assuming it would pass to begin with)

The repealing of all existing statutory can be somewhat problematic as well. At this time we have a citizen awaiting trial for a violation of the criminal codex. This would repeal that codex. I would prefer to see a companion bill to this establishing a new criminal codex.

Posted: **Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:01 pm**

This is big. I think I prefer the second one to the first. I will consider the second up against the current state code and see which one I think would be preferable for a safer and more active region in the future.

Posted: **Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:07 pm**

Ainocra wrote:Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:47 pmI will focus on the second version as I think it's something that I could work with. Here are some proposed changes to that draft.

I like The idea of an open Deshret, as Keeper this would make my life a lot easier, and make the lives of Keepers that follow me much easier as well.
It would make determining order of precedence far simpler, but would also serve to concentrate that order in the older accounts which might note necessarily be a good thing as it could serve to discourage new blood. The procedure of the Deshret would have to take this into account somehow. Curator appointments I suppose, perhaps committees.

Agreed, that's something we could definitely address through the Procedure and good practices. We haven't, thus far, had much problem getting newer citizens involved in the Deshret, as Vac was a newer citizen when he was elected Keeper, as were you, at least in comparison to some others.

Ainocra wrote:Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:47 pmI support abolition of the courts. They don't get a lot of work nowadays anyway and the expanded Deshret could handle the few cases that come up faster and better. but we would have to come up with a procedure for handling criminal cases to avoid subjecting accused criminal to a majority vote, it's very easy to imagine someone being punished for something they didn't actually do just because they are unpopular.

Well, as I'm seeing it, there wouldn't be criminal trials as such. The Atef would unanimously -- or, if we don't think unanimity is workable, by 2/3 or 3/4 -- vote to remove someone's citizenship. That person could then appeal to the Deshret.

I don't think we need complicated procedures for this. Most serious crimes are fairly straightforward. If you commit treason, if you destroy a forum, there's usually strong evidence for that and you shouldn't get off on a technicality. You can make a simple case in your defense through appeal to the Deshret. If there isn't strong evidence, the Deshret could overturn the decision to remove citizenship. I'm not concerned about mob rule to run out people we don't like; as we've seen in the past with Cameron Romefeller, and more recently with Syl, the Deshret will insist on a fair hearing and a fair decision.

Ainocra wrote:Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:47 pmThe election of some officials should be enshrined into the state code, the Pharaoh and the Vizier definitely. The Keeper can probably be dealt with by the procedure of the Deshret but it might be a good idea to put them in there too. I like the idea of an elected Vizier but would prefer to see it tweaked, to have the Pharaoh and the Vizier act as running mates during the election in order to prevent friction after. Elected and voted on separately but running as a team. For example let us suppose I were nominated for Pharaoh, I would then have to name a running mate. For this example let's go with Wambot, because who doesn't want to ride a marsupial into battle? Assuming he accepted we'd then run as a team. I think that would make the elections more dynamic while avoiding the possibility of a clash of personalities after the election.

I don't think the Pharaoh and Vizier should run on a ticket. Their roles are entirely separate, and in a sense the Vizier is supposed to be a check on the Pharaoh. They shouldn't necessarily be close; a close Pharaoh and Vizier could decide to coup together, and such a coup with two high endo, high influence nations would be difficult if not impossible to defeat.

Take, for example, establishment of the OFO. By securing three high endo, high influence nations, Venico, Koth, and I were able to create a new government and exile veteran players who had been in Osiris since 2011. We should be encouraging a separation between the Pharaoh and the Vizier, and between the Pharaoh and the Atef, to ensure that if a Pharaoh goes rogue the Vizier and Atef will oppose rather than join them.

That said, nothing in the current draft would prevent running as tickets. It just wouldn't be required.

Ainocra wrote:Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:47 pmI don't like voting for the Hedjet, I say let the Pharaoh choose their team and work by simple appointment. No confirmation process in the Deshret, but subject to majority vote recall.
That way they can get working right away without a lengthy confirmation process such as we currently have.

In the second version draft, the only members of the Hedjet voted on are the Pharaoh and Vizier. Cabinet members wouldn't be subject to confirmation, but would be subject to majority recall.

Ainocra wrote:Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:47 pmI don't like the idea of No Veto. I feel the Pharaoh should still have a veto power over laws and treaties made by the Deshret subject to some type of over ride vote though I am not dead set on what percentage would need to bypass such.

I really don't see the point in a veto with a full citizens' assembly. There's no reason the Delegate, accountable to the people, should tell the people no. We need to start empowering the people of Osiris to make decisions for the region and, even more importantly perhaps, to be responsible for those decisions instead of pawning off responsibility on the Pharaoh. Additionally, other GCRs with full citizens' assemblies such as TSP and TRR don't have an executive veto. It's well understood in those regions that the Delegate works for the Assembly, rather than the other way around.

Ainocra wrote:Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:47 pmI do not like the idea of Repealing all our existing treaties, I feel this sends the wrong message to our friends and allies. I say leave them in force as is. Perhaps review them to ensure that none of what is set forth needs tweaking after this massive overhaul and deal with them on a case by case basis. (assuming it would pass to begin with)

It's not an auto-repeal. It's a review, with repeal if they don't pass again within 90 days. That's a full Pharaoh term, three months, which is plenty of time to review them all. And it's necessary given that this constitution has an expanded Deshret and a higher threshold for passing treaties, compared to the prior constitution.

Ainocra wrote:Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:47 pmThe repealing of all existing statutory can be somewhat problematic as well. At this time we have a citizen awaiting trial for a violation of the criminal codex. This would repeal that codex. I would prefer to see a companion bill to this establishing a new criminal codex.

We won't need a criminal codex anymore. Syl destroyed a forum; the Atef could remove his citizenship, and if he appeals, the Deshret can vote on his appeal.

The basic point here is to reduce the complexity of our laws. We don't need a complex criminal codex; we all understand that very serious things like forum destruction, trying to coup, etc., need to be punished, and this provides a much simplified way of doing that without all the complicated legalism that is difficult to understand.

Posted: **Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:23 pm**

Given that I'm vehemently opposed to any of the Executive Changes in Draft 1 and will continue to be opposed to them, Version 1 definitely gets a hearty "Nope" from me. Version 2 is certainly something that's much less of a pain, primarily because Executive doesn't change to the convoluted Tetrarchy I've already expressed a fair about of opposition to.

Now, regarding my few issues in Version 2 that I've got, without which I'll likely support it:

To start, we currently have a closure on Deshret applications during election periods to avoid an influx of outside-influence. With the Deshret expanding to the whole population, I'd like to keep such a thing, and input a system like Europeia or (I think) TNP, where folks who join during an election period are classified as Non-Voting Citizens and are unable to vote in that election to prevent outside influence. While, certainly, the Atef could just suspend citizenship applications for the duration of that period, an addition like this seems to be a more effective method of doing that, and still allowing people to be involved within Osiris during election periods. We're still a sovereign region, and therefore do want to protect our sovereignty, with this being the best way of doing it; I think.

Following that my big issue comes with that of the Atef. I think it's a dramatic re-working of that the Atef is for Osiris, and not one that is very fitting for us either. To put it plainly, if we currently look at the Atef, we've got five members out of who only three are really active on the forum. However, the other two are still both high-influence nations who are certainly willing to commit themselves to the security of Osiris, and should remain in that number for as long as they're willing to. I'm not sure how receptive they might be to the pile of extra responsibility given to them, as this effectively makes the Atef a mix of TRR's Citizenship Council, TNP's Security Council and a Military Tribunal. Personally, I'm an advocate of Citizenship staying with the Executive Branch. I always have been, and I'm pretty sure I will continue to be. Therefore, I'm not too keen on having the Atef be a Citizenship Council of sorts, especially with the reasonable amounts of inactivity that some of them have. However, my significantly bigger gripe with this is the replacement of our Courts, and a Criminal Law Code, with what essentially looks to be a Military Tribunal of sorts. A unanimous decision on any removal of citizenship seems highly unlikely for me to happen, and the fact is, all it takes is one person on that Atef who might OOC like that person for a removal of somebody for something like Forum Destruction or Treason to not happen. This revised Atef, honestly, gives me flashbacks to the Council of Ma'at from the KRO, which essentially moved into acting as an oligarchical group, and a key point from which the Empire-affiliated Osiris citizens could hold power.

Also, Pharaoh should keep Legislative Veto. Not sure if Pharaoh gets that, but Pharaoh should definitely get that.

To be 100% honest, and this is kind of changing from what I said when I started writing this, but I'm not overly keen on any sort of reform that's this extensive in nature. I'd rather continue working to improve what we have than move to systems that have worked elsewhere, as there is no gaurantee they'll work efficiently and they'll work positively here. At most, I can see myself supporting the change to the Deshret, which I think does enhance the Citizen's experience in Osiris, and makes for a potentially more efficient Deshret, but the issue I find there is that then we've got the problem of no control over influx of subversives to the legislature besides a straight denial of citizenship. To put it bluntly, the plan, as written out, certainly works well together, but I don't think it's possible to implement any part of it without implementing at least a total of two parts; something I'm very hesitant on seeing done. Though certainly one can cite the government set-up as the problem, and this might just be myself being more optimistic than I should be, but I think that with addition of new active and dedicated members our system can still work very well. The only branch of our government I can really find issue with that would need re-legislating rather than just a different and more proactive approach is the Courts, but the Courts of Osiris and I have never gotten along

Posted: **Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:23 pm**

I shall give a full comment on this later

Posted: **Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:37 pm**

I am going to reserve judgement until I have time to dissect these proposals fully.

Posted: **Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:41 pm**

Tim Stark wrote:Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:23 amTo start, we currently have a closure on Deshret applications during election periods to avoid an influx of outside-influence. With the Deshret expanding to the whole population, I'd like to keep such a thing, and input a system like Europeia or (I think) TNP, where folks who join during an election period are classified as Non-Voting Citizens and are unable to vote in that election to prevent outside influence. While, certainly, the Atef could just suspend citizenship applications for the duration of that period, an addition like this seems to be a more effective method of doing that, and still allowing people to be involved within Osiris during election periods. We're still a sovereign region, and therefore do want to protect our sovereignty, with this being the best way of doing it; I think.

Yes, this is something I missed. I'll figure out a way to work it into the draft. Thanks for bringing it up.

Tim Stark wrote:Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:23 amFollowing that my big issue comes with that of the Atef. I think it's a dramatic re-working of that the Atef is for Osiris, and not one that is very fitting for us either. To put it plainly, if we currently look at the Atef, we've got five members out of who only three are really active on the forum. However, the other two are still both high-influence nations who are certainly willing to commit themselves to the security of Osiris, and should remain in that number for as long as they're willing to. I'm not sure how receptive they might be to the pile of extra responsibility given to them, as this effectively makes the Atef a mix of TRR's Citizenship Council, TNP's Security Council and a Military Tribunal. Personally, I'm an advocate of Citizenship staying with the Executive Branch. I always have been, and I'm pretty sure I will continue to be. Therefore, I'm not too keen on having the Atef be a Citizenship Council of sorts, especially with the reasonable amounts of inactivity that some of them have. However, my significantly bigger gripe with this is the replacement of our Courts, and a Criminal Law Code, with what essentially looks to be a Military Tribunal of sorts. A unanimous decision on any removal of citizenship seems highly unlikely for me to happen, and the fact is, all it takes is one person on that Atef who might OOC like that person for a removal of somebody for something like Forum Destruction or Treason to not happen. This revised Atef, honestly, gives me flashbacks to the Council of Ma'at from the KRO, which essentially moved into acting as an oligarchical group, and a key point from which the Empire-affiliated Osiris citizens could hold power.

Also, Pharaoh should keep Legislative Veto. Not sure if Pharaoh gets that, but Pharaoh should definitely get that.

If we're going to keep the all-powerful Pharaoh, courts, a criminal code, and every tiny bit of complexity we currently have, there really is no point in making any changes. We have all of those things already, and if we try to reduce the complexity of those things while trying to retain them in the same form, we will only open them to abuse.

Tim Stark wrote:Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:23 amTo be 100% honest, and this is kind of changing from what I said when I started writing this, but I'm not overly keen on any sort of reform that's this extensive in nature. I'd rather continue working to improve what we have than move to systems that have worked elsewhere, as there is no gaurantee they'll work efficiently and they'll work positively here. At most, I can see myself supporting the change to the Deshret, which I think does enhance the Citizen's experience in Osiris, and makes for a potentially more efficient Deshret, but the issue I find there is that then we've got the problem of no control over influx of subversives to the legislature besides a straight denial of citizenship. To put it bluntly, the plan, as written out, certainly works well together, but I don't think it's possible to implement any part of it without implementing at least a total of two parts; something I'm very hesitant on seeing done. Though certainly one can cite the government set-up as the problem, and this might just be myself being more optimistic than I should be, but I think that with addition of new active and dedicated members our system can still work very well. The only branch of our government I can really find issue with that would need re-legislating rather than just a different and more proactive approach is the Courts, but the Courts of Osiris and I have never gotten along

Here's what we currently have:

1) A typically inactive executive, regardless of how active the Pharaoh is, which falls completely inactive and plunges the region into complete inactivity if the Pharaoh falls inactive.

2) A Deshret that does what it's told, with very little thought, which is how in the course of less than three months we ratified a TRR NAP, declared war on Lazarus, repealed a TRR NAP, and ended a war on Lazarus. And now we are considering a TRR NAP again! As much as people like to blame me for this, the Deshret passed the TRR NAP. The Deshret passed the declaration of war. And then the Deshret repealed both at the behest of the Pharaoh, and is once again considering a TRR NAP, again at the behest of the Pharaoh. This will continue for as long as the Deshret plays second fiddle to an all-powerful executive.

3) A Pschent with one Elder who has resigned, whom you have no idea how to replace; a Chief Elder who ceases to exist before every citizenship check and has to be prodded just to remember to keep a nation here; and the other remaining Elder isn't very active here either. We have an MIA Scribe of Justice and charges pending against a forum destroyer for over two weeks, with no idea when in the hell justice will be served, especially now that we're down an Elder.

4) An Atef with two members who are almost completely forum inactive, begging the question of how they're going to actually help us during a coup when they need to coordinate with the forum government. We don't just need nations we can endorse during a coup, we need leaders. So the inactivity of two Guardians on this forum is already a problem, it's just a problem that our current system makes easy to ignore until we're couped, which is too late to pay attention to it.

I have no interest in legislating to improve this crappy system that discourages participation here due to its bureaucracy and complexity. Someone else can do that. My drafts stand and if we want to consider actual change that would empower the people of this region to be something other than sheep led by a series of either incompetent or inactive Delegates, we can consider those drafts. If not, good luck finding an Elder to replace r3n, and I look forward to seeing Josh Sebastian's nation revived again during the next citizenship check.

In fact, just consider the entire proposal withdrawn. You can figure out how to deal with a justice system that is failing to even start the process of justice against a forum destroyer and the relative inactivity of your cabinet, just like all the cabinets before it, since you want the Pharaoh to have all the power. I've been a Pharaoh with all the power -- good luck with that.

Osiris Fraternal Order

[Draft] Constitution of the Osiris Fraternal Order

[Draft] Constitution of the Osiris Fraternal Order

[Draft] Constitution of the Osiris Fraternal Order

[Draft] Constitution of the Osiris Fraternal Order

[Draft] Constitution of the Osiris Fraternal Order

[Draft] Constitution of the Osiris Fraternal Order

[Draft] Constitution of the Osiris Fraternal Order

[Draft] Constitution of the Osiris Fraternal Order

[Draft] Constitution of the Osiris Fraternal Order

[Draft] Constitution of the Osiris Fraternal Order

[Draft] Constitution of the Osiris Fraternal Order