Guardians of the Atef

Post by **Lord Ravenclaw** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:23 pm

Honoured Keeper,

I would like it, if possible for you to arrange a confirmation vote for the following people to serve as Guardians of the Atef:

Detective Figs (aka Severisen)
Revert (aka Luna Amore)
Kyps Crew
Datford-Zyvetskistaahn (aka Dmyu)
Ygfbv (aka Ikand), for the duration of his term as Vizier.

Many thanks,

~LR

Cormac · Post by **Cormac** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:45 pm

I've moved this to the Palace of the Deshret to also serve as the discussion thread for these nominations.

I've voted against three of these five nominations for the following reasons:

Unless I've missed a forum account under a different name, KypsCrew is not an OFO citizen. Pursuant to Section 2.10 of the State Code, Guardians of the Atef must be citizens of the OFO.
Datford-Zyvetskistaahn didn't recognize the legitimacy of the OFO in our beginnings and has only recently applied for citizenship in the OFO. Without the chance to at least ask him questions, I have no intention of confirming him to the Atef.
The Vizier is already Vice Pharaoh of Osiris and is also to hold the second most endorsements in the region, according to Section 2.11 of the State Code. Given that the State Code differentiates between the Atef and the Vizier, particularly in regard to their endorsement count, I think it may be not only superfluous but unconstitutional for the Vizier to be a member of the Atef.

We really need to start having mandatory discussion periods for confirmations and recalls. I get that the Procedure of the Deshret doesn't currently outline a procedure for that, but the absence of procedure doesn't mean we need to rush these things to vote. We can do that, absent a procedure, but we can also follow the same mandatory discussion period we follow for legislation, and I think we really need to start doing that.

Post by **shetef** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:51 am

I echo Cormac's sentiments re Vizier yfgbv and Kyp. I would want to hear more from Datford but am not necessarily opposed to his service on the Atef.

Post by **Lord Ravenclaw** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:41 am

Kyp is indeed a citizen of Osiris.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/OFO/profile/3774449/

Treize Dreizehn · Post by **Treize Dreizehn** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:13 am

Cormac wrote:Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:45 amWe really need to start having mandatory discussion periods for confirmations and recalls. I get that the Procedure of the Deshret doesn't currently outline a procedure for that, but the absence of procedure doesn't mean we need to rush these things to vote. We can do that, absent a procedure, but we can also follow the same mandatory discussion period we follow for legislation, and I think we really need to start doing that.

I'll pledge right now as keeper that all future votes that come before the Deshret will have the same mandatory discussion period as a law. In the mean time we probably do need to ensure that it's in the procedure for any future Keepers.

Datford-Zyvetskistaahn · Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:37 pm

I have been advised by the most menacing NES that this is an appropriate place to take questions and address matters relating to my nomination for the Atef, if it is not, you should blame him.

I should like to begin by addressing Cormac's objections:

Datford-Zyvetskistaahn didn't recognize the legitimacy of the OFO in our beginnings and has only recently applied for citizenship in the OFO. Without the chance to at least ask him questions, I have no intention of confirming him to the Atef.

The statement that I didn't recognise the legitimacy of the OFO is interesting, though probably correct in that I did not immediately jump to support what I had seen as being merely the latest in a series of coups, certainly I made numerous jokes about the new regime in its beginning and have continued to do so, but I do not recall denouncing it publicly in any particular place or throwing my support behind the other regime or anything particularly malicious, perhaps Cormac can refresh my memory in this regard.

My only recently applying for citizenship is correct, and probably a valid reason to be concerned, my reason, or one of them, at least, with regard to not applying in the beginning and somewhat with regard to not applying later, was disliking the citizenship oath; as time went on it became less a matter of disliking the oath and more a matter of just not being that interested, I saw no point in gaining citizenship if I did not intend to be active in Osiris' government to some extent. I feel that the second reason is fairly well resolved at this point, what with my being nominated for the Atef, the disliking of the oath, however, remains, but is no real matter now that I've taken it.

I invite questions from the honourable Councillors.

Raxion · Post by **Raxion** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:43 pm

Are there any other reasons why you applied for citizenship?

Datford-Zyvetskistaahn · Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:05 pm

Raxion BrightAxe wrote:Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:43 pmAre there any other reasons why you applied for citizenship?

I applied for citizenship after offering to the Pharaoh to serve as a member of the Atef and him accepting that offer, I believe that at the time it was only myself and Severisen who had been willing to serve. I had been tempted to apply for citizenship prior to that just for the sake of it but, obviously, I did not do so. I imagine there were other reasons for my applying, however the Atef was certainly the primary reason and the one I was most conscious of.

Treize Dreizehn · Post by **Treize Dreizehn** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:13 pm

Datford-Zyvetskistaahn wrote:Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:05 pmI applied for citizenship after offering to the Pharaoh to serve as a member of the Atef and him accepting that offer, I believe that at the time it was only myself and Severisen who had been willing to serve. I had been tempted to apply for citizenship prior to that just for the sake of it but, obviously, I did not do so. I imagine there were other reasons for my applying, however the Atef was certainly the primary reason and the one I was most conscious of.

So, you volunteered, rather than were called?

Cormac · Post by **Cormac** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:42 pm

Lord Ravenclaw wrote:Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:41 pmKyp is indeed a citizen of Osiris.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/OFO/profile/3774449/

Okay. I had forgotten he had applied for citizenship, probably because he has only posted once. To apply for citizenship.

While his nomination is legal, the fact that he isn't making any active contribution here is still fairly unsettling. I would like to be able to ask questions of both Kyp and Zyvet, though I'm open to potentially confirming them.