[Passed] On Proscribed Regions and Organizations

[Adytus]

Friends with a Warden or two? Grabbing a straws. It was hearsay, and still is. You repeatedly claim to "know this or know that" without providing any evidence of the fact. I had no interest in continuing such a debate, and I am under zero obligation to do so.

[Sygian]

Just because Adytus doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that this legislation should not have been put to vote or that it is "terrible" legislation. I think most people can make up their own minds about voting for legislation. This can be seen through the majority of votes on the matter. This is a democracy not a negotiation.

That's not the point. My point is that someone who constantly motions things to vote prematurely motioned to vote weeks ago. More discussion followed, and then a deputy scribe seconded the motion and instantly put it to vote. I just think that is a bit inappropriate is all. There was still discussion to be had, and such a controversial bill should be worked out before we vote on it. The Council of Scribes is a democracy led by the Chief Scribe, not an oligarchy ruled by him and his deputies.

Edit: Adytus, I just saw your reply. Gimme a second.

[Sygian]

Friends with a Warden or two? Grabbing a straws. It was hearsay, and still is. You repeatedly claim to "know this or know that" without providing any evidence of the fact. I had no interest in continuing such a debate, and I am under zero obligation to do so.

No, and it's improper for the Chief Scribe to be calling a member of his council's opinion "hearsay," especially when it's not. What evidence do you need? You never asked for any, you just claim that anything I say is "hearsay." Whatever evidence I provide to you, you'll just call it fabricated I'm sure. You are obligated to continue the debate because it's your damn bill for Christ sakes. The debate wasn't over whether or not I was Out-of-Character friends with the Wardens (and I hope you weren't trying to direct it that way), it was certainly about the content of the bill. There are still things that need to be discussed, removed, added, et cetera. That's sorta how Osiris has worked for a year, and you're failing to meet that precedent.

[Adytus]

Friends with a Warden or two? Grabbing a straws. It was hearsay, and still is. You repeatedly claim to "know this or know that" without providing any evidence of the fact. I had no interest in continuing such a debate, and I am under zero obligation to do so.

No, and it's improper for the Chief Scribe to be calling a member of his council's opinion "hearsay," especially when it's not. What evidence do you need? You never asked for any, you just claim that anything I say is "hearsay." Whatever evidence I provide to you, you'll just call it fabricated I'm sure. You are obligated to continue the debate because it's your damn bill for Christ sakes. The debate wasn't over whether or not I was Out-of-Character friends with the Wardens (and I hope you weren't trying to direct it that way), it was certainly about the content of the bill. There are still things that need to be discussed, removed, added, et cetera. That's sorta how Osiris has worked for a year, and you're failing to meet that precedent.

You are way off track. I am within my right to demand facts for important cases such as removing the Wardens. You said that they were friendly now, that they did not want to destroy Osiris while numerous content on their forum and in the past would suggest otherwise. This was never about your Warden friends. I hardly care about that. I want proof that they are friendly, I want proof that they have changed and demanding something like that on an issue like this is well within sensible. Perhaps a public announcement from the Wardens not to destory us would be an excellent start to actually proof, and not your opinion of a couple of Warden members. It is on your shoulders, not mine, to provide such proof if you are going to make claims like that at all. And claiming that I would just consider it fabrication? There is your character assassination, there are the words you just put into my mouth. I continued the debate as well, just not with you because of statements like this. Syberis, Bog, Jur, Wrektopia, Nimbus, etc. can testify to that fact. I am always engaged, always trying to figure out the best solution for our region. You cannot make everyone happy in a democratic system, that's just how it is. I think this proposal is what is best for the security of my home, and I do not have to debate that with you. I am entitled, like all citizens, to do what they think is right.

The Council of Scribes is a democracy led by the Chief Scribe, not an oligarchy ruled by him and his deputies.

No idea where this came from.

[Sygian]

You are way off track. I am within my right to demand facts for important cases such as removing the Wardens. You said that they were friendly now, that they did not want to destroy Osiris while numerous content on their forum and in the past would suggest otherwise.

Of course you are, but you never did until now. If you wish for me to get some sort of "proof" then I will. What content on their forum are you talking about? As far as I know, they have never directly stated that they plan to infiltrate, raid, coup, destroy, or cause harm to Osiris.

This was never about your Warden friends. I hardly care about that.

You brought it up here. How was I supposed to know that you didn't care about it? Why'd you even bring it up if this isn't about my "Warden friends"? Then here, you say that my opinion is hearsay because I am (Out of Character) friends with the Wardens. You think this is a "character assassination" against you, yet you claim that my opinions don't matter and aren't true because I am online friends with them. Totally out of character. That is just wrong.

I continued the debate as well, just not with you because of statements like this.

Oh that's a load of bullshit and you know it. You brought the "friend" thing up in the first place, and Out of Character relations have no room in politics in this circumstance.

Bog, Jur, Wrektopia, Nimbus, etc. can testify to that fact. I am always engaged, always trying to figure out the best solution for our region.

Of course, they will. They're your posse that follows and mimics every move you make. You clearly don't care about the best solution for Osiris because you are fast tracking your amendment to our legal code without considering the opinions of others because it's all "hearsay" if you don't agree with it.

You cannot make everyone happy in a democratic system, that's just how it is. I think this proposal is what is best for the security of my home, and I do not have to debate that with you. I am entitled, like all citizens, to do what they think is right.

Since last April, Osiris has always been able to a conclusion regarding the passage of important bills and amendments until now. Yes, you are entitled to do what you want, but I am voicing my opinion in saying that it was improper and we need to discuss this more.

No idea where this came from.

There was still discussion to be had, but that didn't matter to you or the deputies who were the ones that moved and seconded the motion to put it to vote.

[Agapiosia]

Sygian, please do not assume that I am a member of sombodies posse. It is degradation to my actual opinion on the matter because of a claim that I just mimic others. My vote respectfully stays the same.

[Sygian]

It is degradation to my actual opinion on the matter because of a claim that I just mimic others.

So Adytus can degrade my opinion by calling it hearsay, but I can't make a claim that you, the other deputy scribes, and Wrek follow Adytus around? That's some interesting logic you have.

[Agapiosia]

Adytus wanted facts to back your opinion up. He has already said that.You're welcome to make opinions like that, but it is disrepesctful to undermine the opinions of me and others who actual read and vote what we think is best.

[Sygian]

Adytus wanted facts to back your opinion up. He has already said that.You're welcome to make opinions like that, but it is disrepesctful to undermine the opinions of me and others who actual read and vote what we think is best.

Yes, I understand that he wanted that now (he never asked until today). But that's not what I am talking about. I'm talking about the fact that he called my opinion hearsay. I linked the post where he did it, you can't deny or ignore the fact that he undermined and disrespected my opinion by doing so.

[Yuno]

From what I gather, overlooking the heated debate above, to comment on the actual legislation itself:

I do find reason to support Adytus's amendment:

1) Old thread: https://osiris.valthost.com/viewtopic.p ... st10001008 Like I know they don't control Islamic Republics of Iran anymore, Funkadelia quit TGW to join LWU. During his TGW days, they defended him and trolled about the refound. They didn't get him to return it when the proscribed region treaty was enforced, and they shouldn't be excused just because he quit the region months down the line after getting bored of being a defender. Him leaving doesn't mean that they're fully innocent. Literally the WFE of the former Osiris-owned region stated "Claimed by TGW" up until the day he quit, and then it was removed.

I mean, OOC one might find this whole situation hilarious that we're still "pissed" about a small trophy region sniped in a R/D game, but IC we have IC honor, lol. And we're not OOC mad we're IC mad. We can be IC opponents to them. The acts they've done against us were acts representing/as The Grey Wardens, and modifying a WFE/membership-quits-- or any modern rectification they attempt doesn't change the fact that in the past months they'd STOOD BY their hostility towards Osiris.

2016-09-08

Islamic Republics of Iran was the first colony claimed by Osiris, but is now owned by The Order of the Grey Wardens. Once a tribute to Detective Figs, the eighth Pharaoh of Osiris, this region now serves as a reminder to darkspawn that there is a force to fear.

Hail the Wardens! Hail the Order! Hail the Maker!

Refounded: 7 September 2016. The Wardens were here. Get dominated, folks.

2017-01-03

Islamic Republics of Iran was the first colony claimed by Osiris, but is now owned by short. Once a tribute to Detective Figs, the eighth Pharaoh of Osiris, this region now serves as a reminder to always check your CTE's.

that was 4 months TGW stood by that and it was only changed because Funk quit defending. Welp, nothing we can do about it now =_=

Like I love The Grey Wardens but could we(Osiris) have some In-Character pride once in a while?

2) Adytus's modifications to the Proscribed Regions proposal simply keeps TGW on the list while removing any/all the other defender orgs that are "proscribed."
Personal thoughts: Ok, I can't think of any other proscribe-worthy regions besides TGW right now so...why not?
~~
3) Adytus's PNG act has nothing to do with the Proscribed Regions Act. It's an entirely different amendment. Europeia has a PNG Act that allowed them to PNG Ikania for crashing a Discord server, Europeia PNG'd Cormac too but no idea why. Lazarus put just Koth/Cormac/Tim on PNG status. Regions use this. Apparently Osiris doesn't have the ability to set PNGs on indiviudals, only regions. That's what this is for.

Say if we were to PNG Funkadelia, we wouldn't be doing it to Lone Wolves United.

(Funk if you are reading this for some reason(lord i hope not,) you're cool I like you plz forgive me )