Criminal Codex

[Theoden Sebastian]

Thank you, Cormac!

[Treize Dreizehn]

Are there any objections other than Juris to us taking defamation out? We can always pass something later if the need for it is strong enough, but I'd like us to get this into the voting phase soon, and I haven't been convinced even a little that defamation is a needed inclusion. I absolutely will not support a piece with it included, as I believe it to be an unreasonable hit on free speech.

We've been over this a few times now, but I'll reiterate the points. Defamation as a criminal offense is ludicrous. We're essentially saying that people cannot have disputes, because everyone in this chamber has at one point or another said something about the other that they regretted later. And that would've, if the current draft passed, be defamation. You're going to see this again, and it will not be pretty.

I would hope that we as a community have moved passed the petty name calling that plagued the old Osiris, but if it comes back the courts are not going to solve the problem. It's going to come from us being adults.

This is going to make personality conflicts worse, not better. There won't be a blow up that ends in everyone apologizing and getting on with things, because it'll be defamation. It'll be criminal. It'll be prosecuted. And some people won't even bother trying to reach an accord over the anger and resentment, they'll just call out "Defamation" when things get to a certain point and let the courts mete out justice to the guy that overreacted.

So please, for the love of god, let's just take that out and move this to vote.

[Theoden Sebastian]

You see, I agree that the inclusion of a provision defining and penalizing Defamation is needed, as it serves as a reasonable limitation to speech and expression, a right if left unbridled, may spell disaster for our community . I do not know about other jurisdictions in RL, but from where I come from, it is punishable as a criminal offense.

This is not to say that we can not have disputes. We can, and we will. That is our nature as human beings. But there has to be a line, to prevent someone going beyond what should be permissible.

I do however find the present provision too vague, and can put excessive restraint on the exercise of what should be preferred rights. So, I propose this amended version:

(a) "Defamation" is defined as any attempt to publicly attack the character of a citizen or foreign guest of the Osiris Fraternal Order with unsubstantiated or imaginary claims, with the malicious intent to cause serious damage to the reputation of that individual.

[Treize Dreizehn]

You see, I agree that the inclusion of a provision defining and penalizing Defamation is needed, as it serves as a reasonable limitation to speech and expression, a right if left unbridled, may spell disaster for our community . I do not know about other jurisdictions in RL, but from where I come from, it is punishable as a criminal offense.

This is not to say that we can not have disputes. We can, and we will. That is our nature as human beings. But there has to be a line, to prevent someone going beyond what should be permissible.

I do however find the present provision too vague, and can put excessive restraint on the exercise of what should be preferred rights. So, I propose this amended version:

(a) "Defamation" is defined as any attempt to publicly attack the character of a citizen or foreign guest of the Osiris Fraternal Order with unsubstantiated or imaginary claims, with the malicious intent to cause serious damage to the reputation of that individual.

I like that phrasing. As it seriously limits the number of cases where it would be prosecuted. I'd support its inclusion in the draft.

[Juris Lancaster]

Alright. Now, who wants to bring this to the floor of the Legislature?

[Theoden Sebastian]

As soon as Cormac edits in my proposed amendment to the defamation provision, I'll motion we put this up to vote.

[Treize Dreizehn]

and as soon as the edits go in I'd second

[Cormac]

The definition of Defamation has been revised.

[Treize Dreizehn]

I move that we put this draft: https://osiris.valthost.com/viewtopic.p ... t=10043900 to vote.

[Cormac]

Seconded.