Osiris Fraternal Order

Prussia wrote:Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:33 pm

7. The Pharaoh will have the power to sign or veto any law passed by the Deshret. No law, treaty, declaration, or other document passed by the Deshret will have the force of law without the signature of the Pharaoh.

I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of ability for the Deshret to override the veto and make something law with say, a 2/3's vote FOR the bill, the Deshret could bring a bill into law.

Regarding the Dele stuff, what if the Pharaoh were to appoint a successor, but the Deshret has to confirm him with a simple majority vote and the Deshret can have him removed with a 3/4's vote.

I agree with the override to the veto.

If we go with an approval process if the Deshret does not confirm the replacement maybe then open up elections for the position if the Pharaoh wants to resign.

I do believe the Prime Minister system could work based on the IRC discussion and wouldn't mind seeing that written out. Maybe if I have time I can review the logs and write something up.

I would suggest a Challenge System. Every say 2 months or so, someone can challenge the delegate. At this time other challengers can step forward and toss their hats in the ring to also be in the election. So then there is an election and whoever wins becomes Pharaoh, yay. But now they cannot be challenged for another 2 months. This would encourage people not to challenge the delegate at every opportunity but rather when they have the best chance. I've discussed this concept before and I truly believe that it deserves a working chance. It has democracy in it but also keeps the delegacy from changing hands too often. Let me know what you think and if you guys want me to, I'll write the clause for it.

Venico wrote:Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:42 pmI would suggest a Challenge System. Every say 2 months or so, someone can challenge the delegate. At this time other challengers can step forward and toss their hats in the ring to also be in the election. So then there is an election and whoever wins becomes Pharaoh, yay. But now they cannot be challenged for another 2 months. This would encourage people not to challenge the delegate at every opportunity but rather when they have the best chance. I've discussed this concept before and I truly believe that it deserves a working chance. It has democracy in it but also keeps the delegacy from changing hands too often. Let me know what you think and if you guys want me to, I'll write the clause for it.

Hey, that's Equilism™ patent pending.

I like it.

Given the time it can take for delegacy transferrals to happen I think three months would be better for that kind of system.

The Hedjet of Osiris will assist in the executive administration of Osiris and will be the chief judicial authority of Osiris. The Hedjet will be comprised of the Scribes of the Hedjet appointed by the Pharaoh with the approval of the Deshret.

Can I have a little more information on this? The judiciary will be the members of the cabinet also?

Josh Sebastian wrote:Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:31 am

The Hedjet of Osiris will assist in the executive administration of Osiris and will be the chief judicial authority of Osiris. The Hedjet will be comprised of the Scribes of the Hedjet appointed by the Pharaoh with the approval of the Deshret.

Can I have a little more information on this? The judiciary will be the members of the cabinet also?

That's the plan in the current draft, and also how it's structured in the current provisional government.

My reasoning for this is that standing judiciaries are often inactive for long periods, and when it does come time for a trial or other significant case sometimes the justices aren't available or aren't prepared because of the long periods of inactivity. Justices are also often required to remain separate from other branches of government, which has the effect of taking activity away from those branches as well as depriving the justices of involvement in them -- even though 90% of the time there is little or no work for the justices in the judiciary.

So my reasoning here was grant judicial power to the Hedjet (Cabinet), so that you have a group of people active with other things prepared to hear criminal trials when they arise and so that we're not forcing people away from active involvement in the most active branches of the government. The draft also requires Deshret confirmation of Scribes, and that is primarily so that the Deshret can ensure that Scribes would not only be good ministers but also good judges when the need arises.

I can certainly agree that inactivity is a problem that plagues judiciaries of regions. While the more prevailing reason for most of them is not the inactivity of the justices or judges per se, but that of a rarity with regard to filing of cases, or seeking relief from the courts which may explain the apparent hibernation of that particular branch of government.

However my issue with the proposed arrangement is that, it tends to concentrate a lot of power in the hands of the Hedjet (which coincidentally is both cabinet and court), removing a mechanism for checks and balances. While such mechanism may be lodged elsewhere, say that Deshret, I'd still go for a separate judiciary. Thoughts?

I'm open to a separate judiciary, particularly if we're going to give the Deshret the power to override the Pharaoh's veto. As I originally envisioned it, the Hedjet is responsible only for hearing criminal trials -- not for interpreting the constitution. My original idea was that if the Deshret passes it and the Pharaoh signs a law, it is constitutional; if the Pharaoh does not sign the law because he interprets it as unconstitutional, it's unconstitutional. But if we're allowing the Deshret to override the Pharaoh's veto, we will need a judiciary that can interpret the constitution and that shouldn't be the cabinet.

If someone would like to draft a separate article for a judiciary, that would be much appreciated. Possible names for a judicial branch include Kenbet, which is what we used previously, or Pschent, which would go along with the theme of the other branches which are all named after crowns of Egypt.

Indeed, my thoughts exactly.

I'll try to work something up.

Something to bear in mind if we separate the judiciary would be the role of Seshat. Would the Seshat remain as part of the Hedjet in its role as prosecutor or would it be an attachment to the Kenbet?