[Nomination] Pschent

[Ridersyl]

Your counterargument is passionate, Vienna. However, as you stated, "by a two vote margin", the motion passed in the Deshret. The people had the final say in the end.

Also, in your final statement, you claim that Cormac has not been involved in Gameplay as long as you have. On your citizenship application, there's no indication of such experience on your part. Care to elaborate?

[Festavo]

I'm actually willing to be on the Pschent, which is very rare these days, so I feel that's one of my biggest perks. I've also got enough legal experience to deal with any trials that may rise up.

Would you like to disclose to the Deshret this legal experience you speak of, Pharaoh Stark?

[Tim Stark]

I'm actually willing to be on the Pschent, which is very rare these days, so I feel that's one of my biggest perks. I've also got enough legal experience to deal with any trials that may rise up.

Would you like to disclose to the Deshret this legal experience you speak of, Pharaoh Stark?

Of course! First of all must come my assortment of charges I've seen across Nationstates, each of which resulted in diligent research of the various laws and legal procedures of the regions in which I was charged so as best to assist my Legal Counsel for the trials. Within Grand Central, back when I was there, I was charged for illegally changing the laws without any legislative approval. In that situation I ended up striking a plea deal which significantly lessened my treason-level charges to a 2 week temporary ban. Within The North Pacific I was charged with 1 count of Treason, 2 counts of Espionage, 2 counts of Conspiracy, and 1 count of Fraud in the fallout from the UDL/Ravania/TNP affair. The case ended up being dismissed with prejudice but the research I had to put in was extensive. Finally, and most pertinent to our region, I was charged four separate times with treason under the Kemetic Republic of Osiris, given the region's lack of double jeopardy protection for citizens. In the end I entered a plea deal granting myself double jeopardy protection, effectively attaining more rights than every single other citizen of the Kemetic Republic. Within that case as well, much work of the laws had to be done.

I've also served as a Temporary Hearing Officer within Spiritus on a recent case based on a citizen suing the government for ejecting his nation temporarily during the Z-Day Event due to their continued refusal to not cooperate with the Regional Goal of curing rather than killing. Finally I've thoroughly reviewed Osiris' Legal Code, and find myself more than capable at making proper rulings upon the current legal dynamic within Osiris in a fair and just manner.

[Festavo]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that your argument is that you have been tried on many charges throughout the years for various offenses so you obviously know the law well enough to be an Elder (judge)?

[Tim Stark]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that your argument is that you have been tried on many charges throughout the years for various offenses so you obviously know the law well enough to be an Elder (judge)?

You'd be amazed how much legal experience you build having to read the laws to find out how to get off of your charged. I've also authored a bunch of legal documents, and so on and so forth, so I do think my 6+ years of legislative and judiciary experience within both this region and abroad enable me to effectively interpret and deal out verdicts based on the law.

Damn, this is getting Congressional Hearing level, usually my Pschent nominations breeze through with almost no questions

[Tim Stark]

Use of a constitutional power isn't "abuse," and your interpretation of when and how that constitutional power should be used isn't necessarily the correct interpretation.

As the person who actually wrote the State Code, I can tell you that your interpretation of the pardon power does not match the intent behind it. I wrote a pardon power for the Pharaoh, with Deshret approval, not only so that miscarriages of justice could be corrected, but so that the community could decide -- together, with the leadership of the Pharaoh -- to grant clemency and second chances if that's what the community felt was the right thing to do. It wasn't just meant to be a check on judicial abuse; it was meant to be a check on judicial power in general, like the executive veto of legislation, or like legislative confirmation of executive officials. It's part of this region's system of checks and balances, and there need to be checks and balances for the judiciary just like for any other branch of government. It isn't just about abuse of power, and no one has claimed the Pschent decided any cases wrongly or abused its power.

I'm going to suggest that maybe you should be here for a minute and try learning something about the region and its community before you make big pronouncements about what our laws mean and are supposed to do.

Any legal scholar worth half their ass knows intentionality does not, has not, nor will ever matter when it comes to legal interpretation. Is the spirit of the law a nice thing to think about? Yes, but there's a reason legislative purpose and intent isn't statutory and is rarely even glanced at by courts of law. So drop the 'muh legislation' approach and stop pretending your name lends you an intrinsic credibility.

Why don't you remind yourself of the circumstances — first, Tim Stark coerced the Deshret into acceptance of terms with which members would find themselves in disagreement with by executively voiding parliamentary law and forbidding division of the question. Then, by a two vote margin — less than 1% of all casting a ballot — a traitor to the entire community was allowed to scratch at its eyes again in the grounds that "he didn't really mean it."

Who else is going to get a second chance if this nomination goes through? How much treason and forum destruction needs to occur before we stop doing what the excruciatingly small excuse for representation of the community feels is "the right thing to do" to save their buddies and start convicting people who are doing real and substantial harm to the citizens of this region who aren't going to be given cabinet positions after a coup?

Checks and balances will exist when there is a legitimately independent judiciary and real separation of powers, not when the good old boys' club dominates every office this region has to offer.

I'm going to counter your suggestion and advise you be involved in gameplay longer than I've been, then I want you to formally work in law, and then I want you to know what you're talking about before you spew bullshit about your God-forsaken intentions.

My aren't you just a ray of sunshine?

Welcome to Nationstates, any gameplayer worth half their ass would know that a large amount of real world legal scholar bullshit flies right out the window when we start applying it to the system that exists within Nationstates Regions. Legal interpretation is fluid from region to region depending on its dynamics, various precedents are set, and law is applied incredibly differently than it is in the real world. Clearly, since you don't seem to grasp that, you must not be worth very much.

But yes, let me remind you of the circumstances. I, as a member of the Deshret, albeit a non-voting one, proposed a comprehensive removal of PNGs for George Holland, Biyah, Dalimbar, Neenee and Neo Kervoskia. In addition, I tied Pardons for Cormac Stark and Ridersyl into it, stating that my proposal was authored in a manner that made all the PNG's and Pardon tied into one vote, the reasons for which were expressed all across various forum sections repeatedly. So far so good with your story, but this is where it diverts from the truth. I would think that if a violation of parliamentary law was made, then I would have seen legal proceedings brought up against myself, would I not? I simply stated that I would retract my proposal if people were not interested in it. That is my right as the author of the proposal, and I expressed that right. Then, however, you go completely off the deep end, given that I assume you then proceed to refer to the Pardons of Cormac and Ridersyl in terms of that pardon. If you would bother looking over the thread in more than your pick and choose style, it becomes very evident that there was widespread support for both Pardons, and that it was the removal of Empire Member PNGs that was the controversy. Now, I'll admit I effectively held the Pardons of Cormac and Ridersyl hostage given that I was the only one that could propose them, but that's not your issue here and therefore that matter is completely irrelevant to this situation. Don't try to make it seem as if Cormac and Ridersyl were were the problematic part of my proposal, because the only thing that I can say about that is you're wrong on every single level.

My, what strong rhetoric you then draw up. Well, you see, Osiris is a region of second chances. I myself have been charged with treason within the Kemetic Republic and initially banned upon the founding of the Fraternal Order due to my opposition to its creations. Now I've served as Pharaoh for roughly 1/3 of the Order's existence. Other individuals such as The Dourian Embassy, responsible for the 2013 Usiris Coup, and Jakker, who under the alias of Lemon Love nearly couped the Kemetic Republic, also came back and made a very respectable career within the region. If you fuck up, yeah we're going to hit you for it. But if you eventually show remorse, show regret, and want to come back to contribute to the region and help us grow stronger, that's fine. The key is to be here to contribute, not to subvert. As for what happens if this nomination goes through? Well, I'll interpret the law and convict those who commit crimes and have the evidence presented for it. Pardons are part of the Pharaoh's portfolio, not that of a Pschent Elders. Perhaps you should be phrasing your concern about potential future pardons to the candidates for Pharaoh rather than fearmongering in the nomination for a Judicial position. And, dear, please don't use "we". You've been here 5 days and 10 posts, half of which have either been here or applying for various things, do something to earn it first.

Checks and balances do exist, and we've balanced our system very attentively given the issues that we saw with the previous regime that ruled Osiris. That's interesting though, a "boys' club" runs Osiris? Of my Cabinet, three of the individuals within it are relatively new to Scribe positions within Osiris (Rogamark, Marselesk, Kyorgia). One of them is our most able Security person, Severisen, and if you'd like to imply that we should be rotating who runs a region's security then you must really be new. Finally we've got Festavo, the most effective Scribe of War we've had for the whole OFO, and someone who when initially appointed during my first term was completely fresh to the position. By now I believe he's what we call an experienced pick with a strong Osiran C.V. My Vizier, meanwhile, is probably the one that could fall under boys' club sure, but Josh is a trustworthy and respected long-time Osiran who can be relied on at any time. If you wish to make attacks against my Cabinet, I'd like to hear a bit more than just rhetoric about how they are a boys' club, like perhaps specific criticisms rather than this drivel.

It's nice to see that you want to puff out your chest and proclaim that you've been in Gameplay longer than Cormac, that's nice. One, unless you want to disclose your past roles and past aliases, your word isn't worth shit on that regard. Two, I'm rather certain Cormac told you to learn about Osiris and the Osiran Community, not Gameplay. We've had more than enough of your type, strolling in and boisterously exclaiming statements as if you know what this region is about and what it's gone through. If that's all you're here to do rather than become a contributing member of the region and the community, then you know where the door is, and I encourage you to use it. Perhaps the next Pharaoh might feel more commitment to appeasing players like you, but I don't exactly believe in that modus operandi. If you want drama, perhaps The South Pacific is more your taste.

[Festavo]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that your argument is that you have been tried on many charges throughout the years for various offenses so you obviously know the law well enough to be an Elder (judge)?

You'd be amazed how much legal experience you build having to read the laws to find out how to get off of your charged. I've also authored a bunch of legal documents, and so on and so forth, so I do think my 6+ years of legislative and judiciary experience within both this region and abroad enable me to effectively interpret and deal out verdicts based on the law.

Damn, this is getting Congressional Hearing level, usually my Pschent nominations breeze through with almost no questions

Don't you think you may be more suited to be Scribe of Justice then? Knowing any loopholes that the state code may have could prove benifical in trying people.

[Tim Stark]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that your argument is that you have been tried on many charges throughout the years for various offenses so you obviously know the law well enough to be an Elder (judge)?

You'd be amazed how much legal experience you build having to read the laws to find out how to get off of your charged. I've also authored a bunch of legal documents, and so on and so forth, so I do think my 6+ years of legislative and judiciary experience within both this region and abroad enable me to effectively interpret and deal out verdicts based on the law.

Damn, this is getting Congressional Hearing level, usually my Pschent nominations breeze through with almost no questions

Don't you think you may be more suited to be Scribe of Justice then? Knowing any loopholes that the state code may have could prove benifical in trying people.

I don't believe the State Code has loopholes in its present iteration, though I'm sure we'll eventually get a case that may have one. My goal right now is to fill an incredibly concerning vacancy with someone I view as experienced and interested in doing it, a combination that I fit. Given the incredible difficulty we've found filling the Pschent for as long as I can remember, whereas Scribe of Justice has generally managed to get filled as it's not a long-term commitment from where one can grow, I figured my lack of ambition to run for Pharaoh or be in the Hedjet for a while, tied with the experience I carry for the position, fits me perfectly for someone who would be able to sit within a Pschent seat.

[Koth]

Be careful with the personal attacks in this thread. Admin team is watching.

[Festavo]

You'd be amazed how much legal experience you build having to read the laws to find out how to get off of your charged. I've also authored a bunch of legal documents, and so on and so forth, so I do think my 6+ years of legislative and judiciary experience within both this region and abroad enable me to effectively interpret and deal out verdicts based on the law.

Damn, this is getting Congressional Hearing level, usually my Pschent nominations breeze through with almost no questions

Don't you think you may be more suited to be Scribe of Justice then? Knowing any loopholes that the state code may have could prove benifical in trying people.

I don't believe the State Code has loopholes in its present iteration, though I'm sure we'll eventually get a case that may have one. My goal right now is to fill an incredibly concerning vacancy with someone I view as experienced and interested in doing it, a combination that I fit. Given the incredible difficulty we've found filling the Pschent for as long as I can remember, whereas Scribe of Justice has generally managed to get filled as it's not a long-term commitment from where one can grow, I figured my lack of ambition to run for Pharaoh or be in the Hedjet for a while, tied with the experience I carry for the position, fits me perfectly for someone who would be able to sit within a Pschent seat.

I meant to say Criminal Codex. Sorry about that.

I would just like to clarify that the argument for your confirmation is that you have spent so much time being tried as a criminal that you deserve to be a judge?