Reforms to the Scribe of Justice
Moderator: Pharaoh
Reforms to the Scribe of Justice
I still think the only decent way to go about such a matter would be with the keeper acting as prosecutor.
Though I wouldn't want to try and prosecute a sitting Pharaoh.
Let's face it, if the Pharaoh has gone to the extreme of committing such a crime the most likely response from the Deshret would be a recall vote. That in my view is the best answer to such an issue since it's unlikely that any executive would be able to effectively operate under such a cloud of suspicion regardless of guilt or innocence.
Though I wouldn't want to try and prosecute a sitting Pharaoh.
Let's face it, if the Pharaoh has gone to the extreme of committing such a crime the most likely response from the Deshret would be a recall vote. That in my view is the best answer to such an issue since it's unlikely that any executive would be able to effectively operate under such a cloud of suspicion regardless of guilt or innocence.
Alcon Enta
Fleet Marshal of Ainocra
Former Foreign Minister and Top Banana of Monkey Island
Former Keeper of the Deshret and Vizier of Osiris
"From far, from eve and morning and yon twelve-winded sky, the stuff of life to knit blew hither: here am I. ...Now--for a breath I tarry nor yet disperse apart--take my hand quick and tell me, what have you in your heart." --Roger Zelazny
Fleet Marshal of Ainocra
Former Foreign Minister and Top Banana of Monkey Island
Former Keeper of the Deshret and Vizier of Osiris
"From far, from eve and morning and yon twelve-winded sky, the stuff of life to knit blew hither: here am I. ...Now--for a breath I tarry nor yet disperse apart--take my hand quick and tell me, what have you in your heart." --Roger Zelazny
Reforms to the Scribe of Justice
Im not a fan of having the Keeper as a prosecutor. I see the efficiency but that does add to the list of requirements for a candidate to be Keeper, one that may discourage a few from running.Ainocra wrote:Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:08 pmI still think the only decent way to go about such a matter would be with the keeper acting as prosecutor.
Though I wouldn't want to try and prosecute a sitting Pharaoh.
Let's face it, if the Pharaoh has gone to the extreme of committing such a crime the most likely response from the Deshret would be a recall vote. That in my view is the best answer to such an issue since it's unlikely that any executive would be able to effectively operate under such a cloud of suspicion regardless of guilt or innocence.
Andrew Grey-Anumia
Spoiler
- Former x2 term Minister of HA (TNP)
- Incumbent Deputy Min. of HA (TNP)
- Incumbent Court Justice (TNP)
- NPA Corporal (TNP)
- HA Mentoring Director (TNP)
- x3 Keeper of the Osiran Deshret (Osiris)
- x2 Scribe of Media (Osiris)
- Sekhmet Legion Corporal (Osiris)
- x3 Former Curator of the Deshret (Osiris)
- Councilor of the Deshret
- Former Deputy Director of the Assembly (Lazarus)
- Former Minister of War (Balder)
- Former Minister of Integration and Civic Service (Balder)
- Jomskivikings (Balder)
- x1 member of the Storting (Balder)
- x2 Member of the Senat (La France)
- x1 Prime Minister of La France
- x2 Member of Parliament (CoDN)
- Election Commissioner (TNP)
- x1 Minister of Foreign Affairs (CoDN)
- Interim Prime Minister (CoDN)
- Citizen of every GCR except TEP and TRR, Former Citizen of Europeia, Spiritus and CoDN. Citizen of Albion, KBG, UK, BI and Alexandria
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- Datford-Zyvetskistaahn
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:00 am
Reforms to the Scribe of Justice
The Keeper idea, as I have drafted, would permit the Keeper to appoint a prosecutor, if they did not wish to serve themselves, in the same way that under the present law the Scribe of Justice may appoint a prosecutor if they do not, themselves, wish to prosecute a case.
Possessor of a signature
Reforms to the Scribe of Justice
That makes things abit better thenDatford-Zyvetskistaahn wrote:Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:36 amThe Keeper idea, as I have drafted, would permit the Keeper to appoint a prosecutor, if they did not wish to serve themselves, in the same way that under the present law the Scribe of Justice may appoint a prosecutor if they do not, themselves, wish to prosecute a case.
Andrew Grey-Anumia
Spoiler
- Former x2 term Minister of HA (TNP)
- Incumbent Deputy Min. of HA (TNP)
- Incumbent Court Justice (TNP)
- NPA Corporal (TNP)
- HA Mentoring Director (TNP)
- x3 Keeper of the Osiran Deshret (Osiris)
- x2 Scribe of Media (Osiris)
- Sekhmet Legion Corporal (Osiris)
- x3 Former Curator of the Deshret (Osiris)
- Councilor of the Deshret
- Former Deputy Director of the Assembly (Lazarus)
- Former Minister of War (Balder)
- Former Minister of Integration and Civic Service (Balder)
- Jomskivikings (Balder)
- x1 member of the Storting (Balder)
- x2 Member of the Senat (La France)
- x1 Prime Minister of La France
- x2 Member of Parliament (CoDN)
- Election Commissioner (TNP)
- x1 Minister of Foreign Affairs (CoDN)
- Interim Prime Minister (CoDN)
- Citizen of every GCR except TEP and TRR, Former Citizen of Europeia, Spiritus and CoDN. Citizen of Albion, KBG, UK, BI and Alexandria
Spoiler

Reforms to the Scribe of Justice
So, would the proposer like to move forward with this?
Andrew Grey-Anumia
Spoiler
- Former x2 term Minister of HA (TNP)
- Incumbent Deputy Min. of HA (TNP)
- Incumbent Court Justice (TNP)
- NPA Corporal (TNP)
- HA Mentoring Director (TNP)
- x3 Keeper of the Osiran Deshret (Osiris)
- x2 Scribe of Media (Osiris)
- Sekhmet Legion Corporal (Osiris)
- x3 Former Curator of the Deshret (Osiris)
- Councilor of the Deshret
- Former Deputy Director of the Assembly (Lazarus)
- Former Minister of War (Balder)
- Former Minister of Integration and Civic Service (Balder)
- Jomskivikings (Balder)
- x1 member of the Storting (Balder)
- x2 Member of the Senat (La France)
- x1 Prime Minister of La France
- x2 Member of Parliament (CoDN)
- Election Commissioner (TNP)
- x1 Minister of Foreign Affairs (CoDN)
- Interim Prime Minister (CoDN)
- Citizen of every GCR except TEP and TRR, Former Citizen of Europeia, Spiritus and CoDN. Citizen of Albion, KBG, UK, BI and Alexandria
Spoiler

- Datford-Zyvetskistaahn
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:00 am
Reforms to the Scribe of Justice
Presently I'm waiting to see if there is more of a consensus awaiting to emerge and whether there are any suggestions for amendments to the bills, if I may, Mr Keeper.
Possessor of a signature
Reforms to the Scribe of Justice
Of courseDatford-Zyvetskistaahn wrote:Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:03 pmPresently I'm waiting to see if there is more of a consensus awaiting to emerge and whether there are any suggestions for amendments to the bills, if I may, Mr Keeper.
Andrew Grey-Anumia
Spoiler
- Former x2 term Minister of HA (TNP)
- Incumbent Deputy Min. of HA (TNP)
- Incumbent Court Justice (TNP)
- NPA Corporal (TNP)
- HA Mentoring Director (TNP)
- x3 Keeper of the Osiran Deshret (Osiris)
- x2 Scribe of Media (Osiris)
- Sekhmet Legion Corporal (Osiris)
- x3 Former Curator of the Deshret (Osiris)
- Councilor of the Deshret
- Former Deputy Director of the Assembly (Lazarus)
- Former Minister of War (Balder)
- Former Minister of Integration and Civic Service (Balder)
- Jomskivikings (Balder)
- x1 member of the Storting (Balder)
- x2 Member of the Senat (La France)
- x1 Prime Minister of La France
- x2 Member of Parliament (CoDN)
- Election Commissioner (TNP)
- x1 Minister of Foreign Affairs (CoDN)
- Interim Prime Minister (CoDN)
- Citizen of every GCR except TEP and TRR, Former Citizen of Europeia, Spiritus and CoDN. Citizen of Albion, KBG, UK, BI and Alexandria
Spoiler

- Datford-Zyvetskistaahn
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:00 am
Reforms to the Scribe of Justice
As there seems to be a tendency in favour of the status quo or only limited reform of the kind in the second option and as there have not been suggestions to improve it, with respect to the Prosecution of Offences (Extraordinary Prosecutions) Bill (replicated below), I move to vote.
Red strikethroughs indicate omissions made, green text indicates new text.
Prosecution of Offences (Extraordinary Prosecutions) Bill wrote:
Section 1: Enabling Amendment to the State Code
1. In the Stade Code of Osiris, after Subsection 2.8, a new subsection is inserted that reads:2. Subsection 2.9 of the State Code of Osiris is renumbered as Subsection 2.10, but will otherwise be unchanged.9. The Deshret will have the power to provide for the selection of an extraordinary prosecutor for offences allegedly committed by the Pharaoh.
Section 2: Amendments to the Criminal Codex
1. In the Criminal Codex of Osiris Act, the following amendments are made:
(a) Subsection 6.1 shall read:(b) Subsection 8.1 shall read:1. The designated prosecutor will detail recommended sentences when prosecuting criminal offenses before the Pschent, according to the procedure established by the Pschent.(c) Subsection 8.2 shall read:1. In order to be valid, a charge of a high crime must be brought before the Pschent by the designated prosecutor within twelve months of the date the alleged offense occurred.(d) Subsection 8.3 shall read:2. In order to be valid, a charge of a felony crime must be brought before the Pschent by the designated prosecutor within six months of the date the alleged offense occurred.(e) After Clause 5.1(d), a new clause is inserted that reads:3. In order to be valid, a charge of a misdemeanor crime must be brought before the Pschent by the designated prosecutor within three months of the date the alleged offense occurred.Section 3: Enactment provisions(e) "Designated Prosecutor" is defined generally as the Pharaoh or any person to whom the Pharaoh delegates the responsibility to. In instances where the Pharaoh is being tried, or would be tried were the charge accepted by the Pschent, "Designated Prosecutor" is defined as the Keeper of the Deshret or any person to whom the Keeper of the Deshret delegates the responsibility to, provided such person is not the Pharaoh, the Vizier or any Scribe of the Hedjet.
1. No provision of this Act shall take effect unless all provisions of this Act take effect.
Spoiler
Red strikethroughs indicate omissions made, green text indicates new text.
Changes to the State Code wrote:Section 3: Deshret of Osiris
1. The Deshret will be the legislative council of Osiris, open to all citizens of the Osiris Fraternal Order who are approved for membership by the Deshret.
(a) The Pharaoh or Acting Pharaoh will be a non-voting member of the Deshret for the duration of their term as Pharaoh or Acting Pharaoh but may vote in elections.
(b) The Keeper will accept or reject applications for membership in the Deshret within seven days of their filing. Any Councilor may move for a full Deshret vote on any membership application accepted or rejected by the Keeper within seven days of acceptance or rejection of the application.
(c) Applications for Deshret membership will be on hold and will not be accepted or rejected during any election, from the time submission of candidacies begins until final results are officially declared.
(d) The Deshret will have the power to establish standards for maintaining membership in the Deshret by law.
2. The Keeper of the Deshret will preside over the Deshret according to its procedural rules. The Pharaoh and Vizier will not serve as Keeper of the Deshret for the duration of their term as Pharaoh and Vizier.
3. The Deshret will have the power to make and revise its own procedural rules.
4. The Deshret will have the power to pass any law that it determines is necessary and proper for the general welfare of the People of Osiris.
5. The Deshret will have the power to ratify treaties negotiated by the Pharaoh with other regions, organizations, and groups.
6. The Deshret will have the power to override the Pharaoh's veto by a two-thirds majority vote.
7. The Deshret will have the power to remove the Pharaoh from office by a three-quarters majority vote. The Deshret will have the power to remove any other government official from office by a two-thirds majority vote.
8. The Deshret will have the power to establish an additional Pharaonic line of succession beyond the Vizier from among Guardians of the Atef.
9. The Deshret will have the power to provide for the selection of an extraordinary prosecutor for offences allegedly committed by the Pharaoh.
910. Unless otherwise noted by this Code, all decisions by the Deshret will be made by simple majority vote.
(a) The result of a vote will be determined by only taking into account members voting, and discounting any "present" votes cast in the vote.
Changes to the Criminal Codex wrote: Section 5: Definitions
1. For the purposes of this Act, the following definitions will apply:
(a) "Off-site property" is defined as any forum or website that exists separately from the NationStates website.
(b) "Phishing" is defined as any attempt to gain administrative or moderation power over off-site property or passwords to off-site property accounts by deception.
(c) "Crashing" is defined as any attempt to cause off-site property to permanently go out of service or lose information, including but not necessarily limited to improper deletion of posts, deletion of a forum or website, and deliberate posting of content of such a nature that it could cause a forum or website host to delete the forum or website.
(d) "Spamming" is defined as any attempt to waste or exceed server capacity or to cause off-site property to become temporarily inaccessible, including but not necessarily limited to excessive page access, excessive account creation, excessive posting, and denial of service attacks.
(e) "Designated Prosecutor" is defined generally as the Pharaoh or any person to whom the Pharaoh delegates the responsibility to. In instances where the Pharaoh is being tried, or would be tried were the charge accepted by the Pschent, "Designated Prosecutor" is defined as the Keeper of the Deshret or any person to whom the Keeper of the Deshret delegates the responsibility to, provided such person is not the Pharaoh, the Vizier or any Scribe of the Hedjet.
Section 6: Sentencing
1. The Scribe of Justice or their deputydesignated prosecutor will detail recommended sentences when prosecuting criminal offenses before the Pschent, according to the procedure established by the Pschent.
2. Sentences will include formal censures or warnings, suspension of rights in accordance with the State Code of Osiris, forum bans, in-game ejections, in-game bans, revocation of citizenship, and prohibition of future citizenship.
[...]
Section 8: Statute of Limitations
1. In order to be valid, a charge of a high crime must be brought before the Pschent by the Scribe of Justice or their deputydesignated prosecutor within twelve months of the date the alleged offense occurred.
2. In order to be valid, a charge of a felony crime must be brought before the Pschent by the Scribe of Justice or their deputydesignated prosecutor within six months of the date the alleged offense occurred.
3. In order to be valid, a charge of a misdemeanor crime must be brought before the Pschent by the Scribe of Justice or their deputydesignated prosecutor within three months of the date the alleged offense occurred.
Possessor of a signature
Reforms to the Scribe of Justice
I would suggest that you amend it slightly to reflect that these only apply to the sitting Pharaoh.
It could as written be applied to Emeritus Office holders as well if it was suspected the committed a crime while in office.
Other than that it looks like the best option to maintain impartiality of the judiciary and separation of powers.
It could as written be applied to Emeritus Office holders as well if it was suspected the committed a crime while in office.
Other than that it looks like the best option to maintain impartiality of the judiciary and separation of powers.
Alcon Enta
Fleet Marshal of Ainocra
Former Foreign Minister and Top Banana of Monkey Island
Former Keeper of the Deshret and Vizier of Osiris
"From far, from eve and morning and yon twelve-winded sky, the stuff of life to knit blew hither: here am I. ...Now--for a breath I tarry nor yet disperse apart--take my hand quick and tell me, what have you in your heart." --Roger Zelazny
Fleet Marshal of Ainocra
Former Foreign Minister and Top Banana of Monkey Island
Former Keeper of the Deshret and Vizier of Osiris
"From far, from eve and morning and yon twelve-winded sky, the stuff of life to knit blew hither: here am I. ...Now--for a breath I tarry nor yet disperse apart--take my hand quick and tell me, what have you in your heart." --Roger Zelazny
- Lord Ravenclaw
- Posts: 1442
- Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:00 am
- Location: The Kingdom of Alexandria
Reforms to the Scribe of Justice
Hm, Pharaoh-Emeritus isn't an official title, or classification - it's just something that as caught on since I started using it last year.
Joshua Ravenclaw
5th April 2012 - "The Pharaoh-Emeritus of the Imperial Crown" - The Tenth Pharaoh of Osiris
Former Pharaoh of Osiris, First elected Pharaoh of the Osiris Fraternal Order, Former Advisor to the Pharaoh of Osiris
Former Spokespriest and Priest of the Council of Ma'at, Deputy Grand Hedjeti and Priest of the Hedjet and Guardian of the Atef
Former Vice Delegate, Justice and Chief Justice, Former Sepatarch, Co-Spokesperson of the Sepatarchy
Former Vizier of Foreign Affairs, Scribe of Foreign Affairs, Deputy of Foreign Affairs and Director of the Diplomatic Service
Former Global Moderator and Administrator
5th April 2012 - "The Pharaoh-Emeritus of the Imperial Crown" - The Tenth Pharaoh of Osiris
Former Pharaoh of Osiris, First elected Pharaoh of the Osiris Fraternal Order, Former Advisor to the Pharaoh of Osiris
Former Spokespriest and Priest of the Council of Ma'at, Deputy Grand Hedjeti and Priest of the Hedjet and Guardian of the Atef
Former Vice Delegate, Justice and Chief Justice, Former Sepatarch, Co-Spokesperson of the Sepatarchy
Former Vizier of Foreign Affairs, Scribe of Foreign Affairs, Deputy of Foreign Affairs and Director of the Diplomatic Service
Former Global Moderator and Administrator