Osiris Fraternal Order

Cormac wrote:Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:35 amI've yet to see any indication that activity is increased by having a military that griefs. We've had one since last September. Do you see a lot of raiders around? Me neither.

We could also still have an active military without griefing.

We also haven't had a particularly active one in that time, but eh. That's semantics. It is an outlet for activity that some people wish to pursue. And I don't see enough reason to deny that to them. If people want to pursue something completely legal by the OFO laws and NS rules I say why ban it? It's the same reasoning behind why I didn't ban liberations. There's a time for them and not just when a treaty ally is in need.

Well, one reason to ban it is because regions that are not imperialist or raider aren't going to want anything to do with us. As we've recently seen, raider regions such as The Black Riders and Lone Wolves United can't actually be trusted, as the former have decided to be hostile toward us based on my own personal dislike of them and the latter had a second in command who was plotting a coup against us.

I'm not seeing how it's in Osiris' interests to grief regions, thus isolating ourselves from non-imperialist and non-raider regions, and boxing ourselves into a corner with a handful of imperialist regions and a handful of raider regions, the latter of which can't be trusted. The three currently in existence -- The Black Riders, The Black Hawks, and Lone Wolves United -- have all plotted to coup Osiris.

So, tell me: How is it in our interests to box ourselves into a corner with a pack of hungry wolves?

TWP ejects natives and I don't see them lacking for allies. Has any non-defender region denied us relations due to our raiding of regions?

I was under the impression that it was two rogue agents from LWU who plotted against us, and not LWU itself. The rogues in question have been removed from the organization. Link me up to TBR and TBH plotting against OFO.

Cormac wrote:Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:43 amWell, one reason to ban it is because regions that are not imperialist or raider aren't going to want anything to do with us. As we've recently seen, raider regions such as The Black Riders and Lone Wolves United can't actually be trusted, as the former have decided to be hostile toward us based on my own personal dislike of them and the latter had a second in command who was plotting a coup against us.

I'm not seeing how it's in Osiris' interests to grief regions, thus isolating ourselves from non-imperialist and non-raider regions, and boxing ourselves into a corner with a handful of imperialist regions and a handful of raider regions, the latter of which can't be trusted. The three currently in existence -- The Black Riders, The Black Hawks, and Lone Wolves United -- have all plotted to coup Osiris.

So, tell me: How is it in our interests to box ourselves into a corner with a pack of hungry wolves?

Well fuck us sideways then, why don't we just drop the whole invader/imperialist deal. That way even if Osiris never goes fenda we can just be a target from those that can't be trusted. Once you start becoming the term "Moderate" you are in fact boxing yourself into a corner with a pack of hungry wolves that may choose to "liberate" Osiris from Moderate Traitors, etc etc.

As I said earlier, I'll do whatever the majority wants.

The fact that we haven't had an active military since basically this governments founding isn't an excuse that can be made against griefing.

That being said, I think we should grief BUT we can put restrictions on it (trying to come to a compromise here). Like if they have an active form of self governance and/or a forum then no we won't grief the hell out of them and destroy them, or something like that.

So we'll only grief people for inactivity? Damn those inactive people!

Yeah, no, we aren't doing that.

If you can't refound a region, you cannot execute an imperialist foreign policy with any teeth. If we want to abandon Imperialism and adopt a more purist Independent persona (under which this policy is plausible), that would be fine with me but anywhere in the middle is counterproductive and disingenuous.

The New Inquisition and Albion are both imperialist, but neither are colonialist. They rarely refound regions.

Even if griefing is permitted, colonialism will not be adopted while I'm Pharaoh. I'm not going to allow the diversion of time and energy from Osiris to meaningless refounded user-created regions. So if you're saying imperialism can't be imperialism without the option of refounding, I'm not sure I grasp why that's the case but all right. If you're saying imperialism can't be imperialism without colonialism, then Osiris can't be imperialist. We don't have the level of activity to justify diverting resources to a bunch of user-created colonies.