[PROP] Oh The Times They Are A Changin'

[Tim Stark]

If this is a thing, why aren't all PNG players who are not DOS part of this all in one?

I would be open to adding People United Together to this if it would make the proposal more palatable.

Feuer Ritter remains PNG for additional OOC Reasons in additions to the actions that caused him PNG. If someone wants to legitimately try to argue that he should be allowed in the region given the kind of disturbing content he has posted in the Black Riders chat, I welcome them to try to find some justification for it. As for Govindia's ban, if you want to try to argue he should actually be welcome within Osiris, I encourage you to reconsider your own personal sanity given the various actions he has committed.

[Koth]

And Bob Moran?

i cant read

[Tim Stark]

And Bob Moran?

i cant read

No worries man, I've had so much to drink I could't possibly judge

That does raise a question though, would people be more/less open to it if I also added PUT? I legit don't recall why I kept him off the list, though I did have a reason.

[North East Somerset]

Am I mistaken or is George Holland DOS, but on this list?

[Tim Stark]

Am I mistaken or is George Holland DOS, but on this list?

George Holland is indeed DOS, yet on this list. The specific motivations for his PNG's removal lie in his extensive service to Osiris both under the Kemetic Republic and the Fraternal Order, and I believe he should have the dignified record in Osiris' history books that he deserves. Furthermore, and I realize that yes he's still DOS, but I'd argue that the scale of his is far less controversial than Halcones or Bob Moran. In George's case, it was mostly a record of flaming that eventually got him that status, and he remains a respected non-citizen member in various communities, including some GCRs, where he works on roleplay and the like. Halcones, meanwhile, was declared Delete-on-Sight for colluding with DOS user Anur-Sanur/Frak, allowing him an avenue into the game, and creating illegal scripts with his help. In Bob Moran's case, the illegal LKE recruitment tool is the big one we know of, though I believe colluding with Frak was on his record as well.

[Xoriet Montresor]

That does raise a question though, would people be more/less open to it if I also added PUT? I legit don't recall why I kept him off the list, though I did have a reason.

Spoiler

Hear ye, hear ye!

Your region is under attack from the inside!

It is I, your Supreme Evil Overlord, and I send this message to warn two of the regions within my domain of the threat to their democracies.

What is the threat to your region?

The World Assembly Delegates of The East Pacific and Osiris are planning two simultaneous coups d'etat of the democratic governments of their regions. If this happens, the difficulty of defeating them will be multiplied by two because the inter-regional community of defenders and raiders will be forced to fight them one at a time.

What do The East Pacific and Osiris have in common?

Both of their Delegates are members of an aristocratic "family" of players that is focused on one thing: accumulating personal power. The "Montreser" family is no different or worse than any NationStates family, but in this instance, they cannot be trusted simply because the RISK IS TOO GREAT.

Why now?

The term of office for Tim Stark (who is a member of two families, Stark and Montreser, hence the name Stark) is nearly complete, and ends within the next month or so, and made it the first stated goal in his midterm report to increase his endorsement count to 120. Ramaeus was elected just a few days ago, but has made it the number one priority to increase his endorsement count to 277 endorsements (he is using a challenge to break a record of endorsements as a cover story). The time frame for both of these things is within the next few weeks, as they both said. Coincidence? Not likely. (Tim Stark may run for re-election and may be re-elected, but that will only let both Ramaeus and Tim gain more endorsements while they wait.)

What can you do to stop the coups from ever happening?

Join the World Assembly, endorse everyone except your Delegate. Do not let your delegate have 30 endorsements more than the appointed security nations of your region. The security nations of your region are listed on the World Factbook Entry on your region's page. It is the job of the security nations to have a high number of endorsements in order to prevent the Delegate from couping their region. Specifically, endorse Zaolat in Osiris and Todd McCloud in The East Pacific.

Don't believe me?

I wouldn't trust me, either. However, it can't hurt to take precautions. Tim Stark and Ramaeus may not coup their regions, but nevertheless, do not let them have too many more endorsements than the security nations in your regions. Why take the risk? Trust me, I'm evil incarnated, I would simultaneously coup Osiris and The East Pacific if I were in their shoes.

For reference:
Tim Stark's Endorsement Limit Rules: page=dispatch/id=372689
Tim Stark's Midterm Report, which says he wants 120 endorsements, https://osiris.valthost.com/viewtopic.p ... 0956650/1/
Ramaeus's Endorsement Campaign: page=dispatch/id=380501

Sincerely,
Supreme Evil Overlord of NationStates
(Just Another Player)

P.S. I hope I am wrong and urge Tim Stark and Ramaeus to resist temptation. If they do not coup their regions, then you should admire them for their character.

That in particular would be why. He'd made attempts to initiate uprisings in TEP before then in various ways. But he targeted Osiris the last time he made an attempt. That's a direct attempt to cause harm to the region.

Keep in mind, every nation in Osiris and TEP received this TG. Only quick counteraction prevented any sort of real loss.

[Victor Siege]

That does raise a question though, would people be more/less open to it if I also added PUT? I legit don't recall why I kept him off the list, though I did have a reason.

Spoiler

Hear ye, hear ye!

Your region is under attack from the inside!

It is I, your Supreme Evil Overlord, and I send this message to warn two of the regions within my domain of the threat to their democracies.

What is the threat to your region?

The World Assembly Delegates of The East Pacific and Osiris are planning two simultaneous coups d'etat of the democratic governments of their regions. If this happens, the difficulty of defeating them will be multiplied by two because the inter-regional community of defenders and raiders will be forced to fight them one at a time.

What do The East Pacific and Osiris have in common?

Both of their Delegates are members of an aristocratic "family" of players that is focused on one thing: accumulating personal power. The "Montreser" family is no different or worse than any NationStates family, but in this instance, they cannot be trusted simply because the RISK IS TOO GREAT.

Why now?

The term of office for Tim Stark (who is a member of two families, Stark and Montreser, hence the name Stark) is nearly complete, and ends within the next month or so, and made it the first stated goal in his midterm report to increase his endorsement count to 120. Ramaeus was elected just a few days ago, but has made it the number one priority to increase his endorsement count to 277 endorsements (he is using a challenge to break a record of endorsements as a cover story). The time frame for both of these things is within the next few weeks, as they both said. Coincidence? Not likely. (Tim Stark may run for re-election and may be re-elected, but that will only let both Ramaeus and Tim gain more endorsements while they wait.)

What can you do to stop the coups from ever happening?

Join the World Assembly, endorse everyone except your Delegate. Do not let your delegate have 30 endorsements more than the appointed security nations of your region. The security nations of your region are listed on the World Factbook Entry on your region's page. It is the job of the security nations to have a high number of endorsements in order to prevent the Delegate from couping their region. Specifically, endorse Zaolat in Osiris and Todd McCloud in The East Pacific.

Don't believe me?

I wouldn't trust me, either. However, it can't hurt to take precautions. Tim Stark and Ramaeus may not coup their regions, but nevertheless, do not let them have too many more endorsements than the security nations in your regions. Why take the risk? Trust me, I'm evil incarnated, I would simultaneously coup Osiris and The East Pacific if I were in their shoes.

For reference:
Tim Stark's Endorsement Limit Rules: page=dispatch/id=372689
Tim Stark's Midterm Report, which says he wants 120 endorsements, https://osiris.valthost.com/viewtopic.p ... 0956650/1/
Ramaeus's Endorsement Campaign: page=dispatch/id=380501

Sincerely,
Supreme Evil Overlord of NationStates
(Just Another Player)

P.S. I hope I am wrong and urge Tim Stark and Ramaeus to resist temptation. If they do not coup their regions, then you should admire them for their character.

That in particular would be why. He'd made attempts to initiate uprisings in TEP before then in various ways. But he targeted Osiris the last time he made an attempt. That's a direct attempt to cause harm to the region.

Keep in mind, every nation in Osiris and TEP received this TG. Only quick counteraction prevented any sort of real loss.

I remember Supreme Evil Overlord. What connects him to PUT?

[Xoriet Montresor]

That does raise a question though, would people be more/less open to it if I also added PUT? I legit don't recall why I kept him off the list, though I did have a reason.

Spoiler

Hear ye, hear ye!

Your region is under attack from the inside!

It is I, your Supreme Evil Overlord, and I send this message to warn two of the regions within my domain of the threat to their democracies.

What is the threat to your region?

The World Assembly Delegates of The East Pacific and Osiris are planning two simultaneous coups d'etat of the democratic governments of their regions. If this happens, the difficulty of defeating them will be multiplied by two because the inter-regional community of defenders and raiders will be forced to fight them one at a time.

What do The East Pacific and Osiris have in common?

Both of their Delegates are members of an aristocratic "family" of players that is focused on one thing: accumulating personal power. The "Montreser" family is no different or worse than any NationStates family, but in this instance, they cannot be trusted simply because the RISK IS TOO GREAT.

Why now?

The term of office for Tim Stark (who is a member of two families, Stark and Montreser, hence the name Stark) is nearly complete, and ends within the next month or so, and made it the first stated goal in his midterm report to increase his endorsement count to 120. Ramaeus was elected just a few days ago, but has made it the number one priority to increase his endorsement count to 277 endorsements (he is using a challenge to break a record of endorsements as a cover story). The time frame for both of these things is within the next few weeks, as they both said. Coincidence? Not likely. (Tim Stark may run for re-election and may be re-elected, but that will only let both Ramaeus and Tim gain more endorsements while they wait.)

What can you do to stop the coups from ever happening?

Join the World Assembly, endorse everyone except your Delegate. Do not let your delegate have 30 endorsements more than the appointed security nations of your region. The security nations of your region are listed on the World Factbook Entry on your region's page. It is the job of the security nations to have a high number of endorsements in order to prevent the Delegate from couping their region. Specifically, endorse Zaolat in Osiris and Todd McCloud in The East Pacific.

Don't believe me?

I wouldn't trust me, either. However, it can't hurt to take precautions. Tim Stark and Ramaeus may not coup their regions, but nevertheless, do not let them have too many more endorsements than the security nations in your regions. Why take the risk? Trust me, I'm evil incarnated, I would simultaneously coup Osiris and The East Pacific if I were in their shoes.

For reference:
Tim Stark's Endorsement Limit Rules: page=dispatch/id=372689
Tim Stark's Midterm Report, which says he wants 120 endorsements, https://osiris.valthost.com/viewtopic.p ... 0956650/1/
Ramaeus's Endorsement Campaign: page=dispatch/id=380501

Sincerely,
Supreme Evil Overlord of NationStates
(Just Another Player)

P.S. I hope I am wrong and urge Tim Stark and Ramaeus to resist temptation. If they do not coup their regions, then you should admire them for their character.

That in particular would be why. He'd made attempts to initiate uprisings in TEP before then in various ways. But he targeted Osiris the last time he made an attempt. That's a direct attempt to cause harm to the region.

Keep in mind, every nation in Osiris and TEP received this TG. Only quick counteraction prevented any sort of real loss.

I remember Supreme Evil Overlord. What connects him to PUT?

Supreme Evil Overlord of NationStates = People United Together = Old Federalia.

Edit: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p21557687

[Lord Ravenclaw]

Spoiler

Hear ye, hear ye!

Your region is under attack from the inside!

It is I, your Supreme Evil Overlord, and I send this message to warn two of the regions within my domain of the threat to their democracies.

What is the threat to your region?

The World Assembly Delegates of The East Pacific and Osiris are planning two simultaneous coups d'etat of the democratic governments of their regions. If this happens, the difficulty of defeating them will be multiplied by two because the inter-regional community of defenders and raiders will be forced to fight them one at a time.

What do The East Pacific and Osiris have in common?

Both of their Delegates are members of an aristocratic "family" of players that is focused on one thing: accumulating personal power. The "Montreser" family is no different or worse than any NationStates family, but in this instance, they cannot be trusted simply because the RISK IS TOO GREAT.

Why now?

The term of office for Tim Stark (who is a member of two families, Stark and Montreser, hence the name Stark) is nearly complete, and ends within the next month or so, and made it the first stated goal in his midterm report to increase his endorsement count to 120. Ramaeus was elected just a few days ago, but has made it the number one priority to increase his endorsement count to 277 endorsements (he is using a challenge to break a record of endorsements as a cover story). The time frame for both of these things is within the next few weeks, as they both said. Coincidence? Not likely. (Tim Stark may run for re-election and may be re-elected, but that will only let both Ramaeus and Tim gain more endorsements while they wait.)

What can you do to stop the coups from ever happening?

Join the World Assembly, endorse everyone except your Delegate. Do not let your delegate have 30 endorsements more than the appointed security nations of your region. The security nations of your region are listed on the World Factbook Entry on your region's page. It is the job of the security nations to have a high number of endorsements in order to prevent the Delegate from couping their region. Specifically, endorse Zaolat in Osiris and Todd McCloud in The East Pacific.

Don't believe me?

I wouldn't trust me, either. However, it can't hurt to take precautions. Tim Stark and Ramaeus may not coup their regions, but nevertheless, do not let them have too many more endorsements than the security nations in your regions. Why take the risk? Trust me, I'm evil incarnated, I would simultaneously coup Osiris and The East Pacific if I were in their shoes.

For reference:
Tim Stark's Endorsement Limit Rules: page=dispatch/id=372689
Tim Stark's Midterm Report, which says he wants 120 endorsements, https://osiris.valthost.com/viewtopic.p ... 0956650/1/
Ramaeus's Endorsement Campaign: page=dispatch/id=380501

Sincerely,
Supreme Evil Overlord of NationStates
(Just Another Player)

P.S. I hope I am wrong and urge Tim Stark and Ramaeus to resist temptation. If they do not coup their regions, then you should admire them for their character.

That in particular would be why. He'd made attempts to initiate uprisings in TEP before then in various ways. But he targeted Osiris the last time he made an attempt. That's a direct attempt to cause harm to the region.

Keep in mind, every nation in Osiris and TEP received this TG. Only quick counteraction prevented any sort of real loss.

I remember Supreme Evil Overlord. What connects him to PUT?

Supreme Evil Overlord of NationStates = People United Together = Old Federalia.

Edit: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p21557687

The Osiran response was this:

Spoiler

Greetings Resident,

You may remember me as Lord Ravenclaw, the Pharaoh of Osiris during the early months of 2014. Now a days, I'm happily retired and currently serving as Judge in the Osiran Court. I am writing to you this evening in regards to the telegram sent by Supreme evil overlord of nationstates earlier today. I apologise in advance for the length of this message. It's been a while.

I would be remiss if I did not first state that that telegram was absolute twaddle. The person behind the nation (Old Federalia, People United Together) has a history of hostility to this region, and in the East Pacific (the other recipient of the message you received earlier), attempted to divide the regional government and citizenry by forcing a law through the Legislature allowing him to operate a private army within its borders which from various discussions, I understand would have been used to seize control of the region illegally from their elected delegate.

As Pharaoh, I found him to be hostile, aggressive and an overall nuisance to the government of Osiris whenever it was possible. It was during my term that foundations with the East Pacific, the prelude to the successful, vibrant and energetic alliance we now hold were set. Despite Old Federalia's attempts to the contrary, Osiris and the East Pacific went on to sign a treaty between our two regions under my successor, Pharaoh Severisen Isaraider who soon afterwards married Xoriet Montresor, the then General of the East Pacific Sovereign Army (and who has now, just recently finished a term as Delegate of the East Pacific).

Moving on to the reason why I've telegrammed you tonight; are you familiar with the historical endorsement records of Osiris since 2012? Well, Osiris has averaged between having 150-200 separate World Assembly Members within its region. Very few Pharaohs since Lyanna Stark in 2012 have held more than 120 World Assembly Endorsements. May to July 2013 saw The Dourian Embassy, who went rogue and brought war to our region, sit on 160. Since that point, successive Pharaohs have tried very hard to get an endorsement count of hundred, and very few have succeeded. I sat through my term as Pharaoh on the mid to low 80's for instance as the first Peace-Time Pharaoh since the civil war began in 2013, although recently our numbers have started to increase again.

It has been a challenge for several delegates of this region, including myself to return to the threshold of endorsements several of my predecessors enjoyed. I failed. My successor, Severisen Isaraider (aka The Not the Pharaoh Anymore of Detective Figs), succeeded, enjoying a count between the mid nineties and the low hundreds. Cormac a stark continued that trend but it decreased with The Großwesir of Ikand back to the low nineties.

So, where does that bring us today? Well in December we elected The Osiran Empire of Tim Stark to serve as our Pharaoh, and one of his goals is to ensure Osiris returns to some form of consistency in regards to our Endorsement Levels. The recent dissolution of the Association of Imperialism into Osiris, plus work from the Atef (Osiran Security Council) to educate and encourage our residents (that's you, by the way) to join the World Assembly and why they should do it, has put Tim above the higher averages of our region, to the tune of 144. Almost unheard of in this region.

To state it plainly, the Pharaoh of Osiris, Tim Stark is not a threat to this region. As Delegate he has a duty to regional security, and couping this region - besides being impossible to hold due to the Atef being vigilant - is a violation of that duty. Please disregard and ignore that telegram from the Evil Overlord of NationStates and enjoy the rest of your evening.

Yours faithfully,

Lord Ravenclaw
Pharaoh-Emeritus of Osiris (Jan-Apr 2014)

[Tim Stark]

Just to give this thread a quick update, I meant to send this a bit ago, but Dalimbar asked me to pass this on to the Deshret:

Spoiler

It has come to my attention that the Osiris Fraternal Order is discussing whether I and others should be removed from the Persona Non Grata list there. I appreciate that for the OFO this is an extremely contentious issue, given its raison d'etre was to remove myself, Neenee, Biyah, and New Kervoskia (collectively referred by the OFO as 'The Empire') from Osiris and to keep us locked out permanently. I make no attempts to speak for the others listed in the discussion, but as an individual mentioned in these discussions, I'd like to say the following:
I have no ambition, will, or desire to be a member of the Osiris Fraternal Order. I recognize the fact that the OFO is the governing authority over Osiris ever since the December coup which removed 'The Empire' from the region. In the early days of coup which established the OFO, I and a few others made the call that resistance would not be organized. Why? For my part, I was tired, and decided that it was time to move on from the governing apparatus of Osiris.

Many of the points raised by the OFO regarding the Kemetic Republic of Osiris are absolutely correct. It was a toxic environment, and I take responsibility for my actions in making that government toxic. Yet, anyone who was involved in the KRO--including many of the founding and contributing members of the OFO--are not exempt of responsibility. You who try to absolve yourselves of responsibility delude yourselves, and lest you forget: nothing is permanent.

The Osiris Fraternal Order and the region of Osiris are not the same thing. Osiris as a region is battle-worn yet warm, willing to welcome those who want to help it thrive. Osiris is a community of nations which has seen much trials and tribulations, but at the end of the day will come together for a good laugh. Indeed, I do not even regard the OFO and most members of the OFO as the same. I have several friends and acquaintances in the OFO, and I do not wish for animosity on a personal or working level.

I still love Osiris, even after over two years of exile. Part of it is with me, not just as its first constitutional Pharaoh, but even just as a guy who hung out there a lot and regarded it as home. And that's the thing: Osiris for me was home.

So long as you, the OFO, do not seek to destroy Osiris, then I frankly do not care for what you do. You are the government now of a sovereign region, and you have responsibilities and duties to undertake. If there is a sense that you are failing on those, then folks will act accordingly. It won't be just me you have to be concerned about.

I would like to apologize to Tim for my sentiments, which probably did not help his case to the Deshret. However, I believe he has his heart in the right place. It is easy to have me and the others of 'The Empire' as a group to hate. But that simply is not enough to develop a really genuine government. I genuinely believe he wants to see the OFO stand for something, instead of against. I believe his thinking is that by removing us from the PNG, the OFO and Osiris can be better and stronger. I wish him the best in his term as Pharaoh. I also wish his successors well, and hope they make Osiris a place where Osirans can really call it home.

So, yeah, absorb as you wish, I think there's a lot to get out of it.