[Discussion] TRR Non-Aggression Pact

[Dennrick]

A lot to digest here.

I want to express my extreme displeasure with the idea that we pass this and people will look at us differently argument. This never works and will never work in NS. Just take a moment and think whose thought process you are trying to alter with the passage of this NAP. I was Delegate of TSP when we wanted to do the same thing but were on the defender puppet side not raider. Now TSP is seen as an imperialist puppet. The moment you start making political moves to dispel foreign opinion is the moment you lose sight of what is best for Osiris.

If we want to be an independent democratic region we cannot take swift actions and begin to pass legislation because it would "improve our image". We shouldn't care what the rest of NS thinks about us. We should be more worried about what Osiris thinks about Osiris.

I see no real benefit for either TRR or Osiris in this pact. We all know we don't have any plans on attacking TRR and that TRR is in no way going to attack us. Normally I would like the idea of solidifying that stance. However, this gives TRR more than what I am willing to give. It gives them a sense of security that we will won't attack them but we get absolutely nothing in return. As I said the overall opinion of the rest of NS won't change with the passage of this NAP.

Add a clause about stopping the slander and biased articles towards OFO in TRR Times and I would think about giving this a chance. TRR isn't going to change the way they do things and we shouldn't be so naive to think that they would. I stand AGAINST this NAP and encourage everyone else to vote NAY as well.

STOP RESORTING TO PETTY INSULTS AND BLANKET STATEMENTS OF ATTACK. Enough is enough with this thought process. We are all here to improve Osiris and have different beliefs of what steps to take to accomplish that goal. Resorting to idle threats and insults is what led to the repeated coups in old Osiris. I am sickened to see that yet again we are dealing with the same bullshit.

With that I motion this to a vote.

[Venico]

Well said Hile but I think we need to wait a few more days? (I should go read Deshret procedure and see if it's changed since I was in here last)

[Cormac]

It's the Keeper's call if it can be motioned to vote now. Technically, 3 days is at 11:33 p.m. EDT tonight, but I'm not sure we need to be that official about it.

However, and this is a big however, I would ask that this not be moved to vote yet as the Foreign Minister of The Rejected Realms has been unavailable, and last I heard this has not even been introduced for discussion there. I would prefer not to have our vote concluded before theirs even begins.

[shetef]

Well said, Hileville. I agree re the clause to end anti-OFO propaganda in the Rejected Times.

I'm content to let this wait for a vote until TRR starts discussion. Perhaps we can take it as a chance for everyone to cool down?

[Dennrick]

I withdraw my motion to vote.

[War Wombat]

what anti-OFO propaganda has TRR used?

[Cormac]

I'm wondering the same thing. They may have published some early in the OFO's history, but much of their recent commentary regarding Osiris has been positive...

[Cormac]

Nevermind.

[Zaolat]

First off, I would like to point out that I agree with most of Cormac's sentiments regarding the treaty. I have noticed that we do have a small amount of factions that have in general certain attitudes towards this. Not counting those neutral or too inexperienced in politics, GCRs, or Military Gameplay.

These groups are not bad at all for the region, but each have slightly different outlooks. They are the Sinkerites, Imperialists, and Raider Purists.

The former two have a tendency to be more political, the latter has a tendency to not. Also, the latter two would be generally classified as Userites. Obviously in the OFO, it's not such a massive distinction and not necessarily unhealthy that they exist to some small extent. In fact many beliefs are shared between them.

I'll give an example of in the case of this discussion three players who are likely to be attributed to each faction: Cormac with Sinkerite, North East Somerset with Imperialist, and Venico with Raider Purist.

Cormac has been seemingly For this, NES For as well though not necessarily sharing Cormac's expressed views, and Venico has been Against.

To state something, I'm looking at this objectively despite myself falling into the Sinkerite category in this particular subject. I am bringing this up because the minor differences in each outlooks are being portrayed in this debate.

In a GCR, there is less tendency to fall into a military gameplay purist philosophy and more on a political aspect.


As has been stated, a treaty or whatever, is not necessary. Then again, the same can be said for current treaties and agreements on the books. There is nothing to lose here by being for, and in fact on the political side gives us at least a gain (Though how much a gain is subjective for each individual).

I'd like to counter the more Purist aligned by saying that, the way you all have played the game, which does not heavily rely on politics to the level the other two outlooks rely is a lot more counter-productive to a GCR. I feel the more hostile reactions in favour of Nay for this are being to biased with a different outlook. Sinkerites (In the case of Osiris) and Imperialists are more in-tune with GCR's and their politics.

Rather than stating that this NAP is useless and stupid, I implore you to realize that part of that reason may be from certain biases and would rather you actual give actual cons as to why this is useless and stupid rather than just personal opinion.

Edit: I am sure a lot of you will not agree with me, that's okay. At least try to understand what I have said.

[Venico]

I really don't appreciate my views being called "purist raider" when that is not at all what I've argued. There are plenty of other regions that are stronger militarily, culturally, and even in membership. But we want to open up relations with TRR because we're "Sister Sinkers" which is absolute bull shit. That is a terrible way to conduct foreign relations and we've seen previous pacts that were based solely on the premise of Sinker Solidarity crash and burn.

I don't see a reason for us to open relations with TRR when there are plenty of other regions that we can get the same if not more benefit from. Besides "Omg we want to be the best Sinker buddies ever."